Soaking alllll the time-- is this bad?

So a few months ago I discovered that Noodle loves soaking in the water jar of a plant I put in her enclosure. This was cute at first, and she would just hang out and then do other things. But she's spending most of her time in the jar and -- maybe I'm just being a worried "mom"-- but could this be a bad thing? I mean like in the last week she's spent nearly all her time (day and night) int the jar. I took her out of the jar to feed her, and she hung out in her hide for about 2 hours and then back to the jar. That was two days ago.

Her ambient temp is 70-72. Her max heat on the heatmat under the warm hide is 90. She has plenty of other places to hide, including burrowing under the substrate (which she used to do a lot before discovering the jar).

She otherwise appears to be her usual healthy, playful, calm little snakey self. Any thoughts on this?

I was going to say temp. Humidity maybe?

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Originally Posted by MR Snakes

I was going to say temp. Humidity maybe?

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What would be a good humidity? Right now it's around 40-48%. Do the temps sound good in the enclosure?

I wanted to add that we live in the desert, and the house is actually much warmer in the summer-- around 80 degrees. I would have expected her soak more in the summer than she does now. She's ice cold when I take her out of the jar.

I admit I don't do much to control the humidity in her enclosure. I put a lot more effort into maintaining the temps/humidity in the ball python enclosure.

What is she again?

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Originally Posted by dakski

What is she again?

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Albino black ratsnake

My guess is 90F is a little hot for her on the hot side, but I don't know that for sure. I would imagine 86F is probably a good hot spot. However, ambient seems okay.

Is she eating? Have you ruled out mites? Does she have appropriates sized hides and on the hot and cool sides? It might not be a water issue, but rather, a safety issue. I think I recall seeing a picture of her in the jar and she looked pretty tight.

The only time I see my corn snakes in the water bowl is when it gets too hot (in the summer) and I have to adjust the thermostat down. If the ambient gets above 82F, they are not happy. They go right in the water bowl to try and cool off. However, I am guessing that isn't your problem.

How are you checking temps?

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Originally Posted by dakski

My guess is 90F is a little hot for her on the hot side, but I don't know that for sure. I would imagine 86F is probably a good hot spot. However, ambient seems okay.

Is she eating? Have you ruled out mites? Does she have appropriates sized hides and on the hot and cool sides? It might not be a water issue, but rather, a safety issue. I think I recall seeing a picture of her in the jar and she looked pretty tight.

The only time I see my corn snakes in the water bowl is when it gets too hot (in the summer) and I have to adjust the thermostat down. If the ambient gets above 82F, they are not happy. They go right in the water bowl to try and cool off. However, I am guessing that isn't your problem.

How are you checking temps?

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Thanks for replying so thoughtfully! I appreciate it!

Eating great, no mites that I can see (and she's pink, so I think it would be easy to see them). Has both hot and cool hides.
I will try adjusting the heating mat down. I have both a probe on the heating pad, and I have an ambient temp/humidity monitor. I also use a laser thermometer gun to make sure the hot hide is not too hot, since the probe is right on the heating mat I wanted to make sure it was accurate to the true temperature.

The jar is very wide at the top, but I am worried she might get too cold in the water soaking that long, and not be able to get out because she's too stiff and cold. I am still learning about snakes, but it just doesn't seem normal to have a snake soaking that much. Maybe you are right and it's too warm for her in the enclosure still. I can also turn off the overhead LED light for a time and see if that helps. I have removed the jars for now and she's back to a shallow dish. She immediately went to burrow under the substrate on the cool side after seeing her jars were gone. So maybe she *is* too warm.

Ambient temps in the cage of 70-72* sounds fine, but I'm wondering HOW MUCH-? of her cage is affected by the 90* heat mat (it's too hot!) and also how you
are measuring the ambient temps. I'd take the jars out & use a normal water bowl, as cute as the jar thing was...soaking constantly, she can end up with skin
issues. BE SURE there are no mites (LOOK AGAIN). Black rat snakes are native to many eastern U.S. states (including mine) which are more humid, but I used to
keep & breed "albino" (amelanistic) black rat snakes back when I lived in the desert with low humidity too. Make sure she has a bowl that is big enough to soak
if she wants, but I really think you need to work on the suitability of her hides, as these snakes don't usually burrow. Make sure she has both a warm & unheated
hide, & bear in mind that these snakes would absolutely brumate in the wild, so that's what she may be trying to do (when cooling off in the jar). The length of
daylight & cooler ambient temps are probably confusing her, since she's still eating. No trouble digesting, I assume? Stools look normal? What kind of enclosure
is this? Not a glass tank, I'm assuming? These do best with air circulation...heat builds up fast in a plastic cage...I recommend & only use glass tanks with screen
tops, FYI.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Ambient temps in the cage of 70-72* sounds fine, but I'm wondering HOW MUCH-? of her cage is affected by the 90* heat mat (it's too hot!) and also how you
are measuring the ambient temps. I'd take the jars out & use a normal water bowl, as cute as the jar thing was...soaking constantly, she can end up with skin
issues. BE SURE there are no mites (LOOK AGAIN). Black rat snakes are native to many eastern U.S. states (including mine) which are more humid, but I used to
keep & breed "albino" (amelanistic) black rat snakes back when I lived in the desert with low humidity too. Make sure she has a bowl that is big enough to soak
if she wants, but I really think you need to work on the suitability of her hides, as these snakes don't usually burrow. Make sure she has both a warm & unheated
hide, & bear in mind that these snakes would absolutely brumate in the wild, so that's what she may be trying to do (when cooling off in the jar). The length of
daylight & cooler ambient temps are probably confusing her, since she's still eating. No trouble digesting, I assume? Stools look normal? What kind of enclosure
is this? Not a glass tank, I'm assuming? These do best with air circulation...heat builds up fast in a plastic cage...I recommend & only use glass tanks with screen
tops, FYI.

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Thank you!

What should the heat mat be set at? I just pointed the laser thermometer at it and it's reading 88. The cool side is reading 70.

She's burrowed her whole life. I think she's a bit quirky. LOL!

Or maybe she's not an Eastern black ratsnake as I was told. It's hard to tell because she's albino and the reptile store where I got her (which is a very good store-- take care of their animals well) didn't know much about what specific type of ratnsake and was guessing black. Her enclosure at the store was labeled simply "albino ratsnake."

She loves a certain cool hide at times, and besides burrowing, she hangs out in her cool hide a lot, and then goes through phases of hanging out in her fake ivy plants and hiding in the leaves and coiling in the branches. She used to coil herself on top of a large leaf and hang out there a lot when she was tiny and the leaves could support her.

She is eating and pooping great. Calm, not defensive when I go into the hide to pick her up.

What would be ideal humidity for her? It varies between 40 and 45% generally. Today it's 48% because it's a cloudy day and a bit more humid than normal (for the desert).

OHHHH I think I just thought of something! As I was thinking about weather, heaters, etc. I realized that the heating vent in the room blows right on her enclosure!! So it probably is blasting her with heat intermittently! We just turned on the furnace about 2 weeks ago! I'll fix that situation today and see if that's what's going on.

I'd lower the heat mat to about 85*...she's an "albino" black rat snake, & while they like humidity, too much can cause issues too & they're adaptable anyway.
(what % of the floor does the heat mat occupy? is it at one end or in the middle?) A better way to offer humidity is a humid hide...use a large enough plastic
food container (lid on) & cut (or melt) a doorway in the top, fill with damp (fully soaked & drained sphagnum moss) & refresh periodically to keep it damp.

Yes, your heater blowing on the cage sounds like a REAL issue. Always have to be sure of cage placement with regard to heat, A/C vents and windows that sun
can stream in thru- avoid all those! All cages should be in a stable area, well away from all that & away from doors that open to the outside also (for drafts).

Snakes "burrow" when their hides are too tall & too open...easy fix: crumple a paper towel or two & stuff them inside! You'll find your snake in there, happy.
Or you could probably give her a Christmas stocking...:rofl:(an old un-matched sock works too)

And rather than misting, a larger water bowl will add humidity, especially if it's near the UTH.

I have a ball python that loves to soak in his water bowl. Once a day I’ll find him in there. After an hour or so he goes back to hiding. And I know his enclosure is on point. Like u said he has no mites, I have a thermostat and a probe thermometer and check it with my laser temp gun. He just likes the water. He also eats like a champ and is my sweetheart snake.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'd lower the heat mat to about 85*...she's an "albino" black rat snake, & while they like humidity, too much can cause issues too & they're adaptable anyway.
(what % of the floor does the heat mat occupy? is it at one end or in the middle?) A better way to offer humidity is a humid hide...use a large enough plastic
food container (lid on) & cut (or melt) a doorway in the top, fill with damp (fully soaked & drained sphagnum moss) & refresh periodically to keep it damp.

Yes, your heater blowing on the cage sounds like a REAL issue. Always have to be sure of cage placement with regard to heat, A/C vents and windows that sun
can stream in thru- avoid all those! All cages should be in a stable area, well away from all that & away from doors that open to the outside also (for drafts).

Snakes "burrow" when their hides are too tall & too open...easy fix: crumple a paper towel or two & stuff them inside! You'll find your snake in there, happy.
Or you could probably give her a Christmas stocking...:rofl:(an old un-matched sock works too)

And rather than misting, a larger water bowl will add humidity, especially if it's near the UTH.

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Thank you! I'm learning a lot here! I will set the heat mat to 85. It is a small mat about 8x8 and pretty much only occupies only the area under her warm hide. She has a large enclosure and the mat is on the far end of one side. The Christmas stocking is a great idea!! I'll work on making a cool humid hide for her.

I was mostly using those plant jars to keep the humidity up rather than misting (in our dry climate misting lasts like an hour). I have put in a large but shallow dish instead of the jars for now.

I do think the main problem is the furnace blasting her, but I have learned a lot of other useful things in trying to troubleshoot that. Thanks again everyone! :-)

Okay . . I redirected the ceiling vent, mostly covered the top of the enclosure to reduce any possible drafts while still allowing some air circulation, removed the plant jars for now, redid the cool hide with some damp moss. reduced the heating mat temp under the warm hide and stuffed a couple of paper towels in it.

And . . . after investigating the changes, she's now tucked into her warm hide! (see her tail sticking out)

YAY!

Thanks for all the advice!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...203_130319.jpg

YESSSSSSS! :gj: She wuvs her new blankie...;)

In the past, I've raised a number of hatchlings (corn & rat snakes, bull/gopher snakes, rosy boas, & others) and I've noticed that many
love either a crumpled paper towel (all those enticing crevices!) stuffed into a hide, or I've torn 1 or 2 paper towels into narrow strips &
tossed them (like a salad) so they fluff into a happy tangle in their cage...either way, it's what they crave.

That's an attractive hide but like many sold in stores, the doorway is too big (too open) & the "ceiling" is too high. Maybe someday the
manufacturers will "get it"? But at least there's a work-around until they do. Good work!

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Originally Posted by FollowTheSun

...I will set the heat mat to 85. It is a small mat about 8x8 and pretty much only occupies only the area under her warm hide. She has a large enclosure and the mat is on the far end of one side....

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And just to be clear, you have hopefully verified that the actual temperature of the surface inside the cage & right over the UTH is in fact around 85*, right? -I only
ask because of the way you worded it, as if you could take it for granted that once you set a thermostat that it will actually produce that specific temperature in the
cage where it's supposed to. You always want to check & verify that. With the hide being right over-top the UTH, and the substrate/towel inside, the warmth will
slowly build up inside & hopefully stay comfy for her. If she starts avoiding the hide, check again, it might be getting too warm for her. It may take some time for
her to discover the humid (moss) hide too, but I bet she'll enjoy it. Our snakes have some individual opinions too, so you can watch & tweak whatever she prefers. The same way she "told you" that she wanted "back pressure" when she squashed herself behind the backing, lol...

Yep, I have a laser heat thermometer to verify- because the probe is also outside of the tank against the mat, so the inside temp is a bit lower than what the probe says. I have to "tweak" it, which I'm getting good at. :-) Thanks again for all your advice! It's been a fun hobby to learn all this stuff. Plus the snakes are cute. :-)