mice won't stop cannibalizing young

i have bred my 3 female mice 2 times and both times they go crazy and eat their young.
i move them to a big bin once i see how big they are and are noticeably pregnant
the young manage to make it to 2 weeks old
i put in over a handful of food every single day (my hands are big)
they always have water
i don't touch them or the babies at all
until i notice that there is about 2-4 left out of 30 babies
they have lots of air flow
they are not too warm

anyone got any advise on what i am doing wrong
its absolutely disgusting finding half eaten baby mice all over the place in the bin

Cannibalism in mice is due to several things

Bad mice, selective breeding is essential

Stress

Improper hydration

Improper diet (you need at least 18% of protein)

Over crowding

Cannot care/feed their young

Cleaning (they are scavenger and will eat the dead)

If it keeps re-occurring you will have to start your colony again from scratch.

im thinking bad breading. i got the adults all from my local pet store and i don't know how or where they get the mice from so they are likely inbred like crazy. i was trying to start a colony but guess those females are not good for breeding i won't be breeding them again. thank you

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im thinking bad breading.

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I always bread mine with gourmet bread crumbs, not generic. So I agree-- bad breading. :rofl:

Sorry . . . I am not an expert on this but a friend of mine says hers will start doing that when they get too old or if they are too young, if I remember correctly. She'll probably comment on that as soon as she sees this thread (she's a regular).

Don't know your location. But look for local rodent groups on facebook an the like. Find some fancy mice to start with, yes they cost more but it will work out much better. Or buy a proven breeder already bred. Let her start your colony. An a big tub doesn't always work well. Smaller tubs works better for me. An 10 gallon tanks had a 1.4 mix with food hoppers that held 3-5 days worth an a wheel or chews.

Now, I haven't raised mice in years (10) since I started raising ASF. If a snake/lizard eats mice, young ASF will fill the need.

If your near OC, MD I'll give you a young colony (1.3) of ASF.

Good luck!

https://www.afrma.org/pdfposters/reprofacts.pdf

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Originally Posted by Parsons483

i have bred my 3 female mice 2 times and both times they go crazy and eat their young.
i move them to a big bin once i see how big they are and are noticeably pregnant
the young manage to make it to 2 weeks old
i put in over a handful of food every single day (my hands are big)
they always have water
i don't touch them or the babies at all
until i notice that there is about 2-4 left out of 30 babies
they have lots of air flow
they are not too warm

anyone got any advise on what i am doing wrong
its absolutely disgusting finding half eaten baby mice all over the place in the bin

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I'm that person that "FollowTheSun" mentioned...been breeding (not "breading", lol) mice for decades.

It doesn't sound like your mice are old, or that they're likely to ever GET old if they keep doing this. :rolleyes:

You shouldn't be moving them to a 'big bin' to have their babies...they're probably freaking out with the whole new cage where they don't feel safe. They do fine in a fairly cozy lab cage...I only move mine to a bigger cage once their pups are crawlers with eyes open...then they need the space.

Mice breed best as trios: 2 females, one male...no more than this ever, but you can have a 1:1 ratio too if you like. The females often help each other care for babies, but a few will not get along & fight, or kill babies...obviously separate any that do that, but they should be steady room-mates that get along BEFORE they have a litter. I leave them together (male too) even when the babies are born...he will often help care for them too, & keep them warm in the winter.

If you have 3 females & one male (I assume?) that's too many together...sometimes females will start stealing each other's babies too, then the babies get injured & the blood seems to get the mice worked up into killing & eating the whole litter.

Since your mice (pups) are making it to 2 weeks, it sounds like you're not feeding a quality balanced mouse chow...a mom mouse that's deficient on protein cannot POSSIBLY breed & raise (feed) her young. I'm using Mazuri* rodent blocks, but I also supplement their diet with peanuts, &/or sunflower or other seeds, at least twice a week. I also give them bits of raw kale for vitamins, & similar things in small quantities now & then (like raw apple or carrot). A "hand-full of feed" daily means little if it's not the right stuff...I do NOT advocate feeding dog food, or rabbit food or guinea pig food, etc...you need quality lab blocks designed FOR rats & mice. Then supplement that with the goodies I mentioned. (*I've used other brands like Purina rodent chow too, depending on what my feed store can get.)

Your mom mice might also be inbred & just lousy moms... My mice are not inbred at all, & I never have this problem. Only an occasional issue with a new mom that's inexperienced, or with an older breeder that's ready to quit because she's not nursing enough to feed them. If you have multiple moms nursing babies, you can sometimes farm out the underfed babies to another mom IF the babies are similar size and IF she (or they) can feed them all. You need to make the adopted babies smell the same so roll them in dirty litter from the surrogate mom's cage before you put them in...otherwise she (or they) will smell the "other male" on the babies and attack & kill them for that reason. (Male mice have most of the scent & it's used as a territorial marking message.)

What are the actual temperatures? They do best at 70-77*. Your mice shouldn't care much if you touched the babies, mine never do. In fact sometimes I play "mid-wife" & clean up the newborn mice if a new mom panics and doesn't know what to do with them, like when they come too fast for her & her pals to clean up. (I've actually saved lots of pinkies that were still encased w/ placentas & blue from not breathing- by cleaning off the membrane, snipping off the afterbirth, & doing tiny chest compressions until they gasp & breathe and turn pink, then give them back to the moms to take over, and they do....yeah, really!)

Water should never be in a bowl...you must use gravity-feed water bottles -the kind with metal bearings in the tube tip so it doesn't drip excessively.

Your cages should be in a quiet location... I agree that babies killed by mom-mice are disgusting & disturbing, so hope you get to the bottom of this.

the only Facebook rodent groups around me wouldn't take to kindly to me looking for advice on breeding for feeder mice.
the ones i got are fancy's and every one i have talked to have not had the issue that i have been having and they had mice years and years ago with over 20 mice in a 10 gal not good i know. the food i use is the bag mice and rat food in the stores its a mix of different types of seeds and some kind of mix block in the bag too but they wont eat it. not sure what you mean by ASF?
my ball python is 3.5 feet long.
i live in NL canada

well im about to give up on trying to breed them because of this i don't have the stomach for seeing half eaten mice in the cage.... i never thought about that. i moved them to the big bin because last time i left them stay in their regular cage but three babies got out and were on the loose for quite a while. so they should be weaned as soon as the eyes open?
and they all have their babies in one big stop all together.
the females were together for a while before the male was introduced
i always thought the male would kill the babies to breed the mom again.
i think i will give breeding one more shot and if the same thing happens ill be done with it.
i was also led to believe that i should not touch the young at all but thats nice to know thanks a lot for the advice
i never use a bowl in the bin i had part of an old cage put in there so i could attach the water bottle too and wheels and tunnels

Your breeding "pets" not feeders. It's not their business. Your looking for quality pets because the stores don't carry them.

Don't know but this might help:
http://www.ratspacnw.org/


Good luck!

An this:

https://www.afrma.org/pdfposters/reprofacts.pdf

It takes a while after their eyes are open before they're ready to be weaned...it's when they completely stop nursing, & eating regular food. And I separate the mom when she's about to have another litter too...it will be obvious.

NO WHEELS in with breeding mice....the moms get "addicted" to it & will run even with babies nursing, they go flying & get injured. Mice have very little "common sense"!

Mice WILL KILL babies that are in competition with another litter...that's another reason to keep either 1:1 or 1:2 mice together at most. You need to pay attention to PREVENT. Pinkies cannot complete with fuzzies anyway, they'll starve...they aren't strong enough to get fed...that's one reason the moms kill some babies.

Mom mice get prego again with the next litter while nursing the first one...it's not rare for the male to jump them right after they have their babies, so they'll be breeding one litter after another, but if you try to leave "vacations" between litters, they usually don't do as well or quit altogether.

ASF = African soft furred rodents...hard to breed as far as I know, BPs usually love them but may not be available where you are.

Mouse chow- lab blocks (for breeding!) are best fed overhead (lab cages) so they aren't crapped on. Using Mazuri brand currently-

I ended up leaving the male in there making my own mix of food (mix of cat food, seeds, and pellets) I assumed the females were lacking protien and letting them do their own thing with weaning the babies.. and no more eating eachother. Odin (snake) is quite well fed now..

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Originally Posted by Parsons483

I ended up leaving the male in there making my own mix of food (mix of cat food, seeds, and pellets) I assumed the females were lacking protien and letting them do their own thing with weaning the babies.. and no more eating eachother. Odin (snake) is quite well fed now..

Sent from my moto e using Tapatalk

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I'm glad that something finally worked out for you, & I suspected the food to be the issue. I feed my mice quality* "lab blocks" (aka pellets) that are large & don't fall thru the wire bars on the tops; then I also supplement their diet with one or more of these: sunflower seeds, safflower seeds, raw unsalted peanuts a few times/week. Also give small amounts of greens (usually kale) for extra vitamins, there's nothing better. You can offer other things too, but these are the essentials. Was using Purina 5001 (for rodents!), now using Mazuri (again, for breeding rodents). Cats have very different needs, & their chow may contain things NOT good for mice long-term. Including excessive fats (which cats NEED) & artificial colors, which mice cannot excrete & which can make them (or your snake, ultimately) sick. I would suggest that you get some proper lab blocks shipped to you, if your local stores won't order it. BTW, I switched brands only because of availability (to my local feed store), but both are good. They are balanced specifically FOR the protein & other needs of RODENTS, unlike cat or dog foods. Don't say no one told you. All the best.

BTW, in winter (assuming your mice are not kept in a warm house) they'll also burn more calories just like we do; for that reason, I give mine more seeds/nuts (protein & fats) than in summer. My mice are in a chilly garage attached to my house, btw. Their cages are fully insulated, & they do well with the modifications I make.

Those seed/grain mixtures they sell in pet stores have eye appeal, but seem to work best for hamsters, not mice or rats, all of which I've raised thousands of.

what you could do is once the mice get old enough, just separate them from the adults? that way they cant be eaten!:D

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Originally Posted by BoopsTheBallPython

what you could do is once the mice get old enough, just separate them from the adults? that way they cant be eaten!:D

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They don't make it that far. They get eaten long before they're weaned, fyi. :( This can happen for many reasons, including the mom mouse has dried up & is too old to keep breeding, or bad genetics from the start. In my colony, I know it's not about the food. If it's not the mom's first litter, I would feed her off as a non-breeder. If I notice any cannibalism of a litter, I pull the rest out before they meet the same fate. Sometimes I can sneak them into another mouse's litter (if they're the same size & not too many for her to feed overall), but usually they get fed off or frozen for future feedings. Breeding mice requires some "tough love", lol.