Black-headed python progression thread

Well we finally pulled the trigger and did it. After dreaming of this species ever since first seeing them in person at a La reptile show 20 years ago we finally manage to get a pair. The one in the picture is a 2016 female acquired from Derek Roddy. She is one of his hold backs from his yellow jacket line. About a week after, we managed to acquire a male from a friend of his that is also a 2016 yellow jacket line. He is unrelated but his parents originated from Derek Roddy's stock.
I am going to make this a progression thread for both of them and any others we manage to add later on. We have plans to add more and breed them. Because of this we are being very selective of the specemins we choose as to only propagate the best bloodlines. For those who do not know bhp's take 4 to 5 years to reach sexual maturity (when raised responsibly) so this is going to be a long process but one we are very excited abbout. I will try to post as many post shed photos as possible. These guys tend to get brighter with every shed for the first fiew years.https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...71028_8974.jpg

Anyhow, thanks for looking.

Here is a picture of the male. The lighting was not very good so it did not show off his yellows very well.https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1116_28947.jpg

exciting things for you guys in the next couple years!!! i didn't know it takes so long for them to reach sexual maturity...fascinating! i, on the other hand, am an impatient one. :)

congrats on the new additions! they're truly stunning. :gj:

BHPs are such incredible animals, and yours are certainly trophies! Of course, it would be hard to go wrong with anything from Derek's stock. Looking forward to continued pics of these!! Glad to hear you're raising them up right. ;)

Congrats! This is one of my favorite species of snakes, they are such impressive adults. Can't go wrong with Derek. Nice pick ups!

Awesome animals, congrats!

Awesome looking snakes. I just found out about these species thanks to watching Brian's B. vlogs. It looks like they can get to be huge. I look forward to seeing them grow.

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Originally Posted by madhatter18

Awesome looking snakes. I just found out about these species thanks to watching Brian's B. vlogs. It looks like they can get to be huge. I look forward to seeing them grow.

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According to Derek, this is a product of power feeding and leads to a very early demise. Unfortunately due to the price tag these snakes demanded years ago many people spent a fortune on them then proceeded to power feed them (easy to do considering their feeding response is insane). Unfortunately their desire to eat comes from their natural low fat reptile diet in the wild. Power feeding them jumbo rats makes them grow fast and become sterile adults that reach lengths of 10 feet only to die of fatty liver disease.
A healthy bhp that has been responsibly fed and grown should not typically exceed 7'. Depending on local you will occasionally get one larger but it is also not uncommon for them to top out at 5-6 feet (typical size of a woma).

Oh by the way, they have yet to be named. Most of our collection has been named by my daughters (hence the Disney theme). Due to the significance to me, they have allowed me to name them. I am looking for suggestions.

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Originally Posted by enginee837

According to Derek, this is a product of power feeding and leads to a very early demise. Unfortunately due to the price tag these snakes demanded years ago many people spent a fortune on them then proceeded to power feed them (easy to do considering their feeding response is insane). Unfortunately their desire to eat comes from their natural low fat reptile diet in the wild. Power feeding them jumbo rats makes them grow fast and become sterile adults that reach lengths of 10 feet only to die of fatty liver disease.
A healthy bhp that has been responsibly fed and grown should not typically exceed 7'. Depending on local you will occasionally get one larger but it is also not uncommon for them to top out at 5-6 feet (typical size of a woma).

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That's interesting. I'm glad you told me. The K. Brothers on youtube have a huge collection of snakes and BHP are one of them. They were huge when I saw them in a video. If not power feeding, do they stay somewhat thin? Maybe thin is not a good word but not thick like a Burmese python? (this sentence is a mess)

I think they would be fun to own. The only concern I have is their size compared to me. I'm 5'3 on a good day and I'm not sure if I could handle their adult size.

For names, are there any themes you like? Aragorn and Arwen come to mind for a couple name. Lol.

Wow, those are bright!


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Originally Posted by madhatter18

That's interesting. I'm glad you told me. The K. Brothers on youtube have a huge collection of snakes and BHP are one of them. They were huge when I saw them in a video. If not power feeding, do they stay somewhat thin? Maybe thin is not a good word but not thick like a Burmese python? (this sentence is a mess)

I think they would be fun to own. The only concern I have is their size compared to me. I'm 5'3 on a good day and I'm not sure if I could handle their adult size.

For names, are there any themes you like? Aragorn and Arwen come to mind for a couple name. Lol.

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Check out Derek Roddy's website. He has pictures of his adult breeders there. You can get an idea of how they should look.
I also am a fan of k brothers channel. To be honest most of their bhp's are too fat imo. It shows in how few hatchlings they produce compared to how many breeders they have. They do have some big ones though!
As for the names, I have no themes. I honestly have no idea at this point.

congrats! BHP are so wicked looking! 4-5years huh? that's enough time for me to learn more about them and start saving now. :) ;)

Here's a fairly large one I had the pleasure of handling at the 2008 San Jose Reptile Show (hopefully photobucket link works, not sure if it will) I'm just a tad over 5'5 for size reference.
They are so awesome, I don't know if I will ever own one but I will enjoy living vicariously through your updates!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...SJShowBHP2.jpg

So here is our first update, for once the snakes have cooperated and both shed on the same day so I was able to get some pictures. The quality is not that great as I use my phone and it is too cold to take them outside and make use of natural lighting. One day I will invest is a proper camera and photo box. Baby steps I guess.
Anyhow, a little more info on these guys. I actually have to correct my initial post regarding the lines these guys came from. Initially I assumed the female and male had originated from Derek's yellow jacket line. I assumed this because that is what we had been talking about for a very long time. I also assumed that because the female was so yellow in the pictures. After reviewing the parents and following the lineage of both of them it appears the female came from his pinstripe line, the male came from parents Derek produced that have produced high yellow, pinstripe and tiger bhp's. Both have grand parents going all the way back to Lazik/Goergen lines. Tiger is an incomplete dominant and a gene we plan on working with in the future. Pinstripe and yellowjacket are line bred so this pair technically could go either or both ways depending on what is produced and what we choose to hold back and continue working with. Either way we are still very excited. Hopefully by this time next year we will have also added a pair of tigers and axanthics to the program.
Anyhow, on to the pictures;
Here is our female. Her colors are much brighter in person, this camera phone does not do either justice.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...71126_0889.jpg
And our male.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...71126_5134.jpg

Both are doing great. The female has a bit of an attitude and the male is pretty chill, both still have the flighty nature of baby snakes.

Absolutely beautiful!

:eyepoppin:eyepoppin WOW - they look amazing and yes, you went to the right guy to start your project :eyepoppin:eyepoppin

I've been watchin K brothers for a while now and follow Derek as well. A BHP will top off my collection nicely....until I get it and find the next "topper." LOL

Congratulations - I'll be watching you as well. Do you have a youtube or facebook page you post to regularly?

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Originally Posted by BR8080

:eyepoppin:eyepoppin WOW - they look amazing and yes, you went to the right guy to start your project :eyepoppin:eyepoppin

I've been watchin K brothers for a while now and follow Derek as well. A BHP will top off my collection nicely....until I get it and find the next "topper." LOL

Congratulations - I'll be watching you as well. Do you have a youtube or facebook page you post to regularly?

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Yes, we do. My daughter's wanted to start a you tube channel so their friends could see our stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbt...i5FSjOqmDIqJeQ

I started a Facebook page as well.

Www.facebook.com/stinkersink/

So it warmed up a bit yesterday so I decided to bring the bhp's out for a little exploration time in the front yard. Our male woma had just shed too so I got a couple of pics of him as well. Enjoy
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1127_57289.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1128_17587.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1128_18184.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...323_124394.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1128_58582.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1128_10101.jpg

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Originally Posted by enginee837

Yes, we do. My daughter's wanted to start a you tube channel so their friends could see our stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbt...i5FSjOqmDIqJeQ

I started a Facebook page as well.

Www.facebook.com/stinkersink/

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Subscribed and I'll check Facebook when I'm on a break or home from work (not good to be on Facebook while working at the 911 center LOL)

You've got some real lookers there.

So I got a message from a fellow bhp breeder near me who had to downsize a bit. He knew we were planning on working with the yellowjacket line and made me an offer on a 2015 female produced by Derek Roddy that I could not refuse. Here is a pic provided by Brandon. She is in shed currently and it's a bit cold outside so I will get some better ones later on down the road.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ec3c0b7821.jpg

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:O:O:O:O

Nice stock to work with - still watching your BHP posts

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Originally Posted by BR8080

:O:O:O:O

Nice stock to work with - still watching your BHP posts

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Thank you! It is definitely a work in progress and even with all the anticipation and research done prior to diving in we are still learning day by day. There is a lot to be said for certain lines and genetics. Some traits are line bred (yellowjacket for example) some dominant/recessive genes (axlanthic and tiger) and some local specific looks (pure western being the most desired yet hardest to come by). All of this goes into the decisions on pairings so that we can produce clean attractive animals that will be desirable and improve on what is considered "U.S. lines" rather than just breed for the sake of breeding.
With all that said or plan thus far is to pair our new female to our current male. Both are a mix of Lazik/Goergen lines and share similar color/contrast. If everything goes as planned we may actually be able to pair as early as this Dec. The goal with this line is to produce high yellow/high contrast animals.
Our first female however is a true gem. She is pure Lazik western blood which is very difficult to come by. Preserving this is going to be a priority for us. Fortunately due to the time it takes females to reach sexual maturity compared to males mean time is on our side so we will be very selective in finding her future mate.
Anyhow, I will try to get somenupdated pics as wether permits.

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Originally Posted by enginee837

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...71028_8974.jpg

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Originally Posted by enginee837

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1116_28947.jpg

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Beautiful banded little worms congrats. If I had a real multi species collection i'd get a woma or black head for sure.

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Originally Posted by enginee837

Thank you! It is definitely a work in progress and even with all the anticipation and research done prior to diving in we are still learning day by day. There is a lot to be said for certain lines and genetics. Some traits are line bred (yellowjacket for example) some dominant/recessive genes (axlanthic and tiger) and some local specific looks (pure western being the most desired yet hardest to come by). All of this goes into the decisions on pairings so that we can produce clean attractive animals that will be desirable and improve on what is considered "U.S. lines" rather than just breed for the sake of breeding.
With all that said or plan thus far is to pair our new female to our current male. Both are a mix of Lazik/Goergen lines and share similar color/contrast. If everything goes as planned we may actually be able to pair as early as this Dec. The goal with this line is to produce high yellow/high contrast animals.
Our first female however is a true gem. She is pure Lazik western blood which is very difficult to come by. Preserving this is going to be a priority for us. Fortunately due to the time it takes females to reach sexual maturity compared to males mean time is on our side so we will be very selective in finding her future mate.
Anyhow, I will try to get somenupdated pics as wether permits.

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I applaud your efforts, patience, and desire to continue quality lines instead of saturating the market with anything you can produce. The BHP takes that extended time with maturity compared to other snakes and that takes a lot of self control by a responsible breeder.

I'm looking to add a (normal/regular/plain ole LOL) BHP to my collection with no interest in breeding. Although I would love an amazing specimen, I would hate for all that time and effort to "go to waste in a collection and not a breeding program."

In addition, there isn't a ton of information out there about them and that also makes it exciting for me to care and raise one. Not to mention they truly are an amazing snake; temperament, pattern, etc...

I'll keep an eye out for more stuff from Stinkers, Inc too LOL

Our latest addition enjoying her freshly cleaned enclosure.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4bb3937eaf.jpg

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Our western girl.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fd340e4131.jpg

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And our little psycho male.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...813eb1558e.jpg

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Originally Posted by enginee837

Our western girl.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fd340e4131.jpg

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And another of her.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fef605cdde.jpg

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Originally Posted by enginee837

And our little psycho male.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...813eb1558e.jpg

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And another of himhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d994cbdd02.jpg

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I just love how shiny the bhp heads are, looks like they been polished, very nice indeed


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Sexy, that is the one snake I would love to have in my collection.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Sexy, that is the one snake I would love to have in my collection.

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Thanks Deborah, we are really enjoying these guys. I am finding they are very similar to our womas in that as adolescents their feeding drive is just plain stupid. Snake hooks are a must unless you want to get bitten and wrapped (I call it the aspedities club secret handshake). Once they near adulthood their food drive tapers off and they become ultra chill and super inquisitive. If you open the enclosure door they come out to you and seem to welcome out of enclosure experiences. Enrichment is a must with either of the aspedities.

Simply AMAZING!!! Thanks for sharing....and stoking my desire to add one to my collection. Your collection of BHP's is awesome.

Subscribed to your youtube, but couldn't find you on facebook - try looking me up if you wouldn't mind, Ron Tronnes

Well we have finally decided on names for two of our bhp's. Our Male yellojacket is Clyde and our female yellowjacket is Bonnie. Bonnie shed a couple days ago and the weather was nice so I took some pics. Her iridescence seems to wash out some of her color in the natural sunlight. I suppose some day I will need to invest in an actual camera and learn how to use it.
She has some length to her for sure, I am guessing between 5 and 6 feet and she is starting to fill out a little compared to her younger counterparts. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2d63ea031a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...180f1ab938.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...34e7fb4153.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9146dd82c8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...083caa4e80.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...530ea6db1d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...11dd988c0f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9417011765.jpg

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Oh meh god.... looks like I may need to start up a savings fund for one of these... just looking at these snakes is giving me palpitations! :O

Really great looking black head so glossy in the sunlight

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Such awesome looking snakes! Those Aussies know how to do it. :)

Gorgeous animals! It looks like they're growing like crazy! Are they living up to their feeding response reputation?

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Gorgeous animals! It looks like they're growing like crazy! Are they living up to their feeding response reputation?

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Yes for sure! This girl has mellowed out a bit as she has matured however as you can see in the background I still use a hook to get her out of her enclosure.

Our female Western (Lazic bloodline) shed last night so it took her out for some sun.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e1f3cae462.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...17ffe9fda1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9d09c70a71.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...be061a077f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1aac8f0216.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...35bba32621.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...55802308c3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...734866f218.jpg

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On a side note, here's a perfect example of why you always use a hook with even a tame black-head. She displayed their typical behavior perfectly. No aggressive body language, no striking or fast movement. She simply started rubbing her head along the snake hook opened up and chomp down on it.
This was not aggressive or defensive behavior. She was hungry and in typical BHP fashion, tried to eat the first thing close to her face.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...13c4b63256.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0280bc688f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...34869e9803.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d10db1bc7e.jpg

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Well, at least you don't need to worry about them fasting. Lol

I love it! Those pics really do show the strange behavior.

Love the pics blackhead and woma's are great looking pythons. If I had real muti species collection they would be on the list of something to add.

Here is a great read regarding BHP diets posted by Derek Roddy yesterday. I am copying and pasting with his permission.

Good morning everyone.
Recently Ive been getting several questions a month regarding feeding BHPs and their diet. I'm also seeing a few answers from other keepers who seem to be "in the dark" regarding the associated problem with them and their diets in captivity over the long term.
I first got an interest in the BHPs in the mid/late 80s. During this time they were 10k each and out of reach for a high school kid. Haha.
Over time though I developed a fascination with them and would bother all the breeders at the time with question, etc.....like we all do/did.
One thing I noticed over the years was that no one who was breeding in the 80s, were doing so in the 90s. And the guys that were breeding in the 90s were not breeding in the 2000s and even most those guys in the 2000s are not breeding now.
This is because their breeding stock stopped producing for them after a number of clutches. Almost every keeper from back in those times has told me that most of their females would laid 2 to 4 clutches then never produce again.
I had always believed it was diet and one of the breeders who got me into BHPs in the early 2000s told me "Don't ever give them large food items" he also went on to say that "feeding smaller items more often was the way to go with BHPs".
I listened but more than that, I learned. I have studied the diet of this species in detail and even been to Australia several times to see these awesome animals in their natural environment.
The problem is that BHP eat A LOT!!!! Radio tracked BHPs have been observed eating as many as 12 to 15 breaded dragons in a weeks time. But what type of "nutrition" does a 6 foot BHP get out of that? Well the answer is not much. This is why BHPs are constantly looking for food. AND the reason keepers mess them up with Diet in captivity.
This also seemed to go right along with what I had been told by the breeder (Tom McLay) to offer smaller items more frequently.
As I stared to understand the BHPs diet, I started to change my feeding accordingly.
So Instead of a large or x large rat every week or even two.(like most would give a 6/7 foot animal) I started offering smaller meal every few days. This mimics most closely HOW they eat in the wild. Not only does it achieve their natural behavior in captivity it also helps from getting fatty tumors from having large food items basically rot in the gut of an animal thats not supposed to be even getting those types of fats and proteins. I even noticed a difference with the hatchlings and ease to get feeding.
In theory its not the amount of food but the time it takes to ingest the larger meals and that is what causes the issues over time. Fat tumors in the stomach, intestine, liver, kidneys and even the heart have all been diagnosed to be cause by DIET!!!!
BHPs digestive systems are extremely fast (much faster than ambush predators who ARE designed to eat large mammals)
By feeding them larger items you are slowly rendering them unless for breeding and giving them a shorter life span.
Now I guess if you're a high turn around breeder....meaning you just want to turn and burn through your females....I guess that's OK but for keepers like me who get attached and name the 100+ BHPs you have....it means more and I want to keep my "friends" with me for as long as possible.

I can tell you this. Feeding this way will not hurt your BHPs nor will it prevent them for breeding nor will it keep them from getting the nutrition they need. In fact it's the opposite. When done right ,feeding smaller meals more often is actually getting MORE food into your animals over time But, doesn't come with the side effects of females who won't produced after a certain age or just end up dying at 8 years old.

I've been feeding this way for over a decade now and I have noticed a physical difference in my BHPs appearance (brighter,more colorful and added "shine" in their skin) their behavior seems to be more on par with their natural behavior as well...... searching for food most everyday.
Couple that with most of my breeders being over 15 years old and still producing for me..... It's the diet folks.

D

More from Derek,

Also an issue is no-one really knows what a wild BHP looks like. Seeing these animals in captivity gives us a "false knowledge" of size reference to go by (because of overfeeding). Here are some wild BHPs.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...70cabd656a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d1def9c271.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...18a3bb0912.jpg

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Continued.
in other words your BHPs shouldn't look like this hahahttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d0e884158a.jpg

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Continued.
check this video out. My buddy Dave in WA with a super nice young adult (YES ADULT) BHP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAbIzjFEjRo

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Fish day. Funny how one of the most challenging snakes to get feeding as babies will literally eat anything you put in front of them as adults.
Here is a pic of Patty (female western bhp) eating a f/t finger mullet.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cf6a988460.jpg

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