The Big Debate CHE vs Infrared Nocturnal Bulb vs Racks vs Tanks

The Big Debate

Ok, So I have had ball pythons for numerous years and have always only bought the Nocturnal Infrared bulbs and have had ZERO issues and have always had mine in glass tanks with foil on the top.... but upon getting four more ball pythons I decided to join numerous facebook groups... I have gotten bashed left and right for having a tank and having a nocturnal infrared bulb... I only recently have ever heard of a CHE bulb... and I cannot afford a rack system at the moment...Im so sick of being bashed by folks.... what are everyone's views on these subjects here??? :tears:

For me, there is no debate. Just use what works for YOU. It’s good to have an open mind and be willing to try other things if needed.

I find FB groups rather disappointing and just stay away myself.

Yeah you've got to be careful what you post online when it comes to the reptile hobby. Unfortunately the internet is full of bullying, racism, sexism, ageism etc.

It's interesting really because it's the one place people can be 100% honest about who they are without fear of repercussion.

So it really shows people for what they truly are.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

For me, there is no debate. Just use what works for YOU. It’s good to have an open mind and be willing to try other things if needed.

I find FB groups rather disappointing and just stay away myself.

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People are harsh in those groups like their way is the ONLY way... what did these people do before they found out about CHE's.. i mean back when i started you only had red bulbs.. heck when i got my first ball all i knew was about having a heat lamp nothing else... they lived... lol i didnt know about covering your tank then or humidity.. i mean most people i think that buy balls from a petshop dont have a clue... I didnt back then... im reading constantly now... about how i can better my setups... now all my tanks have foil on the top...and all 3 sides covered with black poster board... appropriate coverage in the tank to make them feel secure... appropriate sized hides and full submersible water bowls...but changing all my bulbs and tanks... just seems like im throwing money away that ive invested... and getting rid of a method ive never had a issue with... but i mean if i have to... i will... slowly. I dunno.. i keep my tanks and snakes in my walkin closet... its connected to the bathroom (which has a window) and i leave the door open to give them day/night cycles but obviously it has wayyyyy less light than they would if i were to keep them in a bedroom... Mine are pretty much in the dark all the time, with very minimal light (just like a rack system) hahha

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Originally Posted by Reinz

For me, there is no debate. Just use what works for YOU. It’s good to have an open mind and be willing to try other things if needed.

I find FB groups rather disappointing and just stay away myself.

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^ this.

it is easier to achieve ideal husbandry - temps, humidity, security, etc. - in a rack, tub, PVC enclosure, etc. that's why it's a recommend to alotta new peeps. there are still alotta peeps that make glass tanks work for them and their snakes and that's fine. it just might take more work to get the temps and humidity, etc. that your snake needs. so if it works, that's great! if not, think about what modifications u need to make a glass tank work or think about switching to a rack or tub.


Edit: i think we ask alotta new peeps to keep an open mind when we try to help and ask them to do this and that and try racks and PVC, etc. i also think taht we need to keep an open mind as well when we see a keeper w/ a glass tank or whatever and it works for them. why bash anyone w/ a happy animal?

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Originally Posted by rockmissjess

People are harsh in those groups like their way is the ONLY way... what did these people do before they found out about CHE's.. i mean back when i started you only had red bulbs.. heck when i got my first ball all i knew was about having a heat lamp nothing else... they lived... lol i didnt know about covering your tank then or humidity.. i mean most people i think that buy balls from a petshop dont have a clue... I didnt back then... im reading constantly now... about how i can better my setups... now all my tanks have foil on the top...and all 3 sides covered with black poster board... appropriate coverage in the tank to make them feel secure... appropriate sized hides and full submersible water bowls...but changing all my bulbs and tanks... just seems like im throwing money away that ive invested... and getting rid of a method ive never had a issue with... but i mean if i have to... i will... slowly. I dunno.. i keep my tanks and snakes in my walkin closet... its connected to the bathroom (which has a window) and i leave the door open to give them day/night cycles but obviously it has wayyyyy less light than they would if i were to keep them in a bedroom... Mine are pretty much in the dark all the time, with very minimal light (just like a rack system) hahha

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CHEs are Not “better”, they are just another option.

Keep in mind that some of folks on FB are just repeating the group mantra about CHEs being better. Some or many have no actual experience with them.

Like you, I kept hearing how much better CHEs were. I tried them in a few tanks and gave them a good 2-3 month trial. I was not happy with their performance for MY situation. Besides, there really wasn’t a valid reason for me to try them. I had no husbandry issues beforehand.

Bottomline, if what are doing is working satisfactory, then just press on and ignore those other folks. There’s always more than one way to skin a cat.

I did buy one che bulb and am trying it on a picky eater tank.. to see if it helps... red bulb vs che thing ... i installed it this morning... took me nearly all day just to find the right temp for the thing with the dimmer.. its not like my bulbs where i know exactly what wattage is perfect for each tank and the exact setting.. :snake: we will see how it effects humidity and the snake aswell... (i am in arizona) so the humidity thing is a big deal... everything here dries like a sponge sitting in the sun.. ill give it a go... i got the fluker 100w bulb for a 20g and like i said.. we will see how it goes.. i didnt go cheap on the bulb as i really want to give it a chance.. and reguardless of what others have told me that cheaper bulbs do the same thing.. i read the reviews... lol.. i always do... and if something says it causes fires.. or smoking... or going out within a month.. im not going to put my snakes nor my house at risk.. so i know based off that right there... they might need to do some research themselves hhahahha... Im not ready to change my tanks to racks but if the che's really are better... then i gosta do what i gosta do i suppose. Thats the snake hobby right? learning constantly! :rolleyes:

Originally I was using Red/Blue/Black heat bulbs, but, they were burning out every few months in my frog room (high humidity-day/night temp swings)-so I swapped to CHE's in there now: I get about 3 years out of a CHE before it fails/rusts out. Thermostats in my snake rooms are pulse proportional-so again CHE's are my best overall option.

My only negatives for CHE's vs. Bulbs is that you have to deal with that new CHE 'scent' when you start them up, and that they seem adept at pulling moisture out of the immediate vicinity (though I am not convinced a heat bulb of equal output would not have the same effect).

As for Racks vs. Tanks-I use both. I like both.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

For me, there is no debate. Just use what works for YOU. It’s good to have an open mind and be willing to try other things if needed.

I find FB groups rather disappointing and just stay away myself.

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^^^^ YUP ^^^^

You do what works for you and your animals. As long as you're providing proper husbandry and your animals are safe and healthy, why change??
Don't let other people ren't space in your head.

I've been using glass tanks and bulbs since I started out in this hobby in 1999-2000ish.

Ball Pythons can be successfully kept in MANY kinds of enclosures and be safe, secure and happy. As long as husbandry is met the snake doesn't care if it's in a glass tank. So many people think their way is THE ONLY way to do it and cite BS as reasons you can't do it any other way. A snake will thrive in a glass tank if you keep its husbandry requirements met. The only downside is it's a little harder to do in a glass tank. Racks work fine, but there is *absolutely no reason* that is the best or only way to do it.

I see it too, and actually have left most BP groups on Facebook for ripping apart newbies for keeping their one and only snake in a large tank and telling them they're wrong and they're hurting their snake instead of telling them how to go about making it ok for said snake (clutter, hides, etc). Ask 100 ball python owners how to BEST keep a snake and you'll get 110 answers, and know what? All of the might be right.

Do what YOU want to do, as long as the snakes husbandry is met there's no problem.

Facebook groups are wild, particularly ball python groups. People are frankly kind of crazy there, and think everyone is wrong except for them LOL. Just stay here on this forum. :P

Do whatever works for you to maintain proper husbandry that the snakes need :) As long as their needs are met so that they are kept healthy, it works.

People tend to overlook the forest for the trees, and that happens here too. The forest is the conditions the snake needs, which can be provided in lots of different ways. The trees are all the specifics of how you get there.

And they also tend to get so hung up on the specific equipment that they don't really think about or explain how all the stuff actually works - as in, how heat works and how humidity works, what insulation does, etc.

What I find particularly frustrating is when people say, "You need this specific item at this specific size/wattage" without even asking about the conditions of the room the cage is in. There's a huge range in common temperature and humidity in people's houses, and there is equipment available to appropriately heat and humidify a cage at any of them. But you definitely can't take a setup that works in a room that's 75° and 50% humidity and expect it to still give you the same results in a room that's 62° and 35% humidity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinz

For me, there is no debate. Just use what works for YOU. It’s good to have an open mind and be willing to try other things if needed.

I find FB groups rather disappointing and just stay away myself.

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^^^this^^^^
i have Che for my ball pythons and a red bulb for my pueblan. I like the Che because they last longer. Mine has gone three years so far.

I say say you do you as long as the animal has proper temps and happy.

This makes so so happy you all here arent as judgmental on here... hahah I just felt like in the fb groups that I should just leave.... but ill just stay in them and say nothing... lol i love to see all the different morphs ect... and its always nice to help people find the right substrate ect.. i usually end up just messaging people privately because i have no intention on getting bashed.

It’s not the heat source that’s important, it’s the thermostat! A dimmer thermostat is ideal, much better than on off/on thermostat, imo ALWAYS use a thermostat that uses dimmer technology, which is standard operating mode on herpstat and other quality thermostats.

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

It’s not the heat source that’s important, it’s the thermostat! A dimmer thermostat is ideal, much better than on off/on thermostat, imo ALWAYS use a thermostat that uses dimmer technology, which is standard operating mode on herpstat and other quality thermostats.

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I have a digital humidity/thermostat in every tank and a digital infared poin and shoot reader thing and dimmer on all my heat lamps... ive never had anyone mention to me things about that just the type of lamp i use.. and that i keep them in tanks (even tho the sides are blacked out covered)

I’m a huge fan of the plastic/pvc cages with radiant heat panels because I’ve found that setup to be easy to heat, maintain humidity, and clean. While it is a pricier setup, it’s what I will typically recommend due to ease of use. That said, it is by no means the only answer. I started with tanks, like most of us that have kept reptiles for many years. I’ve built homemade cages from melamine and used plastic tubs, though not in racks. I’ve used basking lights (day & night), CHE’s and UTH’s. Each setup worked well in its own way for my needs at the time. Some setups just take a little more work to get the husbandry on point depending on the conditions in your home. Ultimately it is about a shared love for these amazing animals and providing them the best life we can afford.