UTH better without thermostat

My room always stays between 68-70 degrees. Before I got a thermostat for the UTH, the substrate was 2-3 inches thick and it remained a perfect 90-95 degrees. No problems, but as soon as I put on the thermostat on, I'm lucky enough to get a 88 spike. It mainly ranges between 78-86 and I had to remove a lot of substrate to cover up the heat pad to an inch. On the cool side, I have a heat lamp that warms that side up to 80, rarely it gets up to 82/83.

I'm stressing with this thermostat. I know I shouldn't constantly check it but I have too for at times it doesn't get to where I feel comfortable that she's not getting the right heat. Things were so perfect without the thermostat... So I'm not sure what to do.

Where were you measuring the temperature prior to getting a thermostat? On top of the substrate or under it, closest to your heat pad?

Your temp at the bottom of your enclosure, under the substrate should be around 90F to prevent burns. Your snake will burrow and find the heat. You can adjust the target temp on your thermostat to be whatever you need it to be in order to achieve the optimal temperature.


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Above the substrate was reading 90-95. My balls never / rarely burrow because I keep the top that warm. I use Cypress mulch, so I know it takes a while for it to warm as well.

95 is getting too hot. You don't want the hottest surface your bp can reach higher than 92, which means under the substrate. Even if you haven't seen your bp burrow doesn't mean they won't.

What are you using to measure your surface temps?

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Originally Posted by canineskiba

Above the substrate was reading 90-95. My balls never / rarely burrow because I keep the top that warm. I use Cypress mulch, so I know it takes a while for it to warm as well.

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95 even without the substrate is actually a bit too hot.

I keep the substrate to an inch at the thickest, so that you don't have this problem with the temperature difference. And measure below the substrate when adjusting your thermostat, because they WILL burrow or move the substrate aside. I would have it so below the substrate is no higher than 95, and above the 1" substrate might be 88~92.

I have and use a temperature gun.

I'm afraid that when we lost power a few times before going completely out during a bad storm a few days ago might have caused issues to the thermostat that it's not reading temperatures right. I had to remove the prope, unplug both so I could take the tank upstairs where it was warmer. We don't have a generator right now.

Your substrate is too thick and you always want to take the temperature at the hottest they can touch.
They can and will burrow.

I agree that your substrate is too deep. I suggest aiming for about 3/4"-1" for your substrate depth above the UTH. Also, measure the glass directly above the surface, because like mentioned above, your snake can and will burrow. You should be aiming for about 92 degrees.

As for what to do in the meantime, I would DEFINITELY leave the UTH plugged into the thermostat. If the house is cold and ambient temps are a bit low your snake will most likely be looking to find a warm spot, and over the UTH will possibly be her only option. A UTH running in a colder room may run full power and spike to temps that can burn your snake.

We're new to the hobby and experienced a similar problem when we first set up our habitat. First we were told that we should be safe using a 6x23 Ultratherm UTH without a thermostat 'because of it's low wattage". When we couldn't get the belly heat in our hot hide to the proper temp we were told that we probably should reduce the depth of our substrate.

It was then it occurred to us that regulating belly heat by adding or removing substrate made no sense. When we actually measured the heat generated by our UTH directly on the bottom of the habitat (110 degrees!), we realized that it not only didn't make sense, it was dangerous.

So... we added a Herpstat, set it to 92 degrees, and lowered the substrate around the hot hide to about 1/2" (our boi usually pushes it out of the way). The rest of the habitat has 1" or more of substrate, which does help with the temperature gradiant. A 40w CHE manages the ambient temp.

Basically, our first lesson was that substrate looks pretty, is useful for managing humidity, but it should never be used to regulate temperature.

To reach up to 95 degrees ON TOP OF 2 to 3 inches of Cypress Mulch means the temp on the surface is VERY VERY hot.

Ball Pythons do burrow. Even if they do not burrow per say, by moving around and circling in their hide (plus their weight) they can push substrate aside. Perhaps not 3 inches of mulch, but I wouldn't be so sure that the snake doesn't get down to unsafe temps. Even another inch down would be to hot. All the way down, and you are looking at SEVERE burns.

There is always the first time. And that could end tragic.

Having that much substrate on top of a UTH is also not safe. You are basically not allowing any of the heat to dissipate. You are "super insulating" that heat tape, it could reach unsafe temps and burn out in best case scenario, but fires have been started that way, too.

No need for that thickness of substrate. Like others have said, knock it down to 1 inch. Measure on the bottom, under the substrate, and shoot for 92 degrees AT THE MOST on the surface.

:)

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Originally Posted by canineskiba

My room always stays between 68-70 degrees. Before I got a thermostat for the UTH, the substrate was 2-3 inches thick and it remained a perfect 90-95 degrees. No problems, but as soon as I put on the thermostat on, I'm lucky enough to get a 88 spike. It mainly ranges between 78-86 and I had to remove a lot of substrate to cover up the heat pad to an inch. On the cool side, I have a heat lamp that warms that side up to 80, rarely it gets up to 82/83.

I'm stressing with this thermostat. I know I shouldn't constantly check it but I have too for at times it doesn't get to where I feel comfortable that she's not getting the right heat. Things were so perfect without the thermostat... So I'm not sure what to do.

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80 is great for cool side. 88-91 under my hide on hot side. I see nothing wrong with 88.

Whoa!?

Okay, a step back please. I'm stressing out already due to it for I never had this problem to get the temperature at the right temp.

Right now, there isn't even a inch of Cyprus much covering up the heat pad right now and not even getting anywhere near 88. It's reading in the 70s - 84. A spike of 85 here and there.

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but as soon as I put on the thermostat on, I'm lucky enough to get a 88 spike. It mainly ranges between 78-86 and I had to remove a lot of substrate to cover up the heat pad to an inch.

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If you think your ball python will never burrow think again. As someone who has suffered through a burn on a ball python, do not ever go without a thermostat. Make sure you install it correctly. Probe goes outside the tank in direct contact with the thermostat and readings are taken from inside the tank under the substrate at the closest point to the glass/pvc/ plastic/ etc.

Everyone explained 2-3 inches of substrate is far too much. 1/2-1 inch is all you ever need. Do what's best for your snake's health.

But I am replying here because I woke up this morning to a burrowed snake. He pushed excessive substrate out of his warm hide to get to the bottom.

https://i.imgur.com/LjSrJv4.jpg

I understand. Think I have maybe an inch thick? Little less? I temped the glass and it was way to hot. So I lowered the thermostat down to where it was suggested where I got the thermostat to get the temp needed for the glass. So I'm hoping I'll get the right temps by the time I get home from work.

Right now she's under the hide on the cool side where it's 80. So I'm hoping she got to hot and moved there and not being cold. I had lost a snake years ago for I couldn't get the right temps, even with the thermostat and that was with a corn snake! I can't lose this little girl, so I'm a bit stressed out.

Correction to the reply I made above... thermostat probe goes in direct contact with the UTH. I said with the thermostat which makes no sense :O

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Originally Posted by canineskiba

I understand. Think I have maybe an inch thick? Little less? I temped the glass and it was way to hot. So I lowered the thermostat down to where it was suggested where I got the thermostat to get the temp needed for the glass. So I'm hoping I'll get the right temps by the time I get home from work.

Right now she's under the hide on the cool side where it's 80. So I'm hoping she got to hot and moved there and not being cold. I had lost a snake years ago for I couldn't get the right temps, even with the thermostat and that was with a corn snake! I can't lose this little girl, so I'm a bit stressed out.

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Don't stress. They are hardier then one may think, and you are here to fix your issues and get help!! So you are already a step ahead ;)

For the next couple of days, check your babies belly once the day, most likely she will be fine. Take the temps ON the glass surface, not on the substrate. As long as your ambient temps are not to cold (and they aren't) you don't have to stress over the UTH creating warm temps ON the substrate. Trust me, the heat dissipates and does reach up there the longer the snake lays there and pushes down the substrate. 90 to 92 at the most on the surface (glass) and about a inch of substrate.

You'll do just fine ;)

Thank you guys.

I have the prope taped to the heat pad nice and secure. I just think when we lost power for a couple of days, it sort of made it wonky or something.

I'll check on her tonight when I get home as I lowered the temp down. I checked her before I left and her belly is as white as can be, so I felt relief there.

I'll keep everyone updated. I love this Lil girl, which is funny for I was aiming for another male but she had the personality I was looking for OwO funny how things end up that way.

Hi bud ..... I may be off the mark here if so just disregard my post ....

Just concerned to read that you had TAPED the probe to the heatmat ... I read previously that the heat mat was inside the viv which suggests that the TAPE maybe inside the Viv ?!?!

One of the main rules I quickly learnt was that there should NEVER ever be ANY tape inside the viv/rub/enclosure .


I use a hot glue gun to secure any wires or probes INSIDE the vivs .


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Um, the prope is outside of the tank for the thermostat. I use a temperature gun (2 of them) to temp the other side of the glass.

Update;; think I'm on the right track. The hottest part of the heat pad is 96 and the thermostat is set at a 93. I know it's still high, so I lowered the thermostat to 90, so hopefully I get a 93 for the high? Thank you everyone for your help ;3; my lil Jade is precious to me and the last thing I want to do is hurt her because I was being stupid and naive of listening to people that obviously don't know what they are talking about.

So is the heat mat in the viv ? I just thought you'd mentioned that you'd taped a probe to it - it's the prospect of tape in the viv that was my main concern tbh


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No, the heat pad is underneath the tank on the outside. Nothing is inside the tank asides the substrate, hides and water bowl and the humidity gauge.

Update:

Alrighty, now I'm confused.
The cooler side is 80.
Hotside now on top of the glass is 92. Yay!
Humidity is at 58, a bit low so I just sprayed in there a bit.

So....why is my little girl on top of her hide on the cool side underneath the heat lamp? OwO

How hot is the top of the cold hide, measured with a temperature gun? She might think it's her hot spot, if it's somewhere around 85 degrees. Basically: she's basking. Nothing wrong with that so long as your temperatures are on point.

Ah... Strange. She's done it a few times... Last time I tempt the top was 94... Which I know is high... I think I might lower the substrate more on the hot side? Its a bit above an inch... Think 1.5 inches?

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Originally Posted by canineskiba

Update:

Alrighty, now I'm confused.
The cooler side is 80.
Hotside now on top of the glass is 92. Yay!
Humidity is at 58, a bit low so I just sprayed in there a bit.

So....why is my little girl on top of her hide on the cool side underneath the heat lamp? OwO

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Do you have identical hides for the cool and hot side?

When we first got our BP, he used the inexpensive RBI hide on the cool side but avoided the very pretty Exo Terra hide we had placed on the hot side. Instead of going in the hot hide, he would curl up behind it or on top of it.

When we replaced the Exo Terra hide with another RBI hide, he went right in it. Best guess is that he was just more comfortable in the smaller RBI hide.

Hello.

Sorry for the late reply. That's how life goes, it just wraps you up.

The two hides are identical.

Snakes are surely an interesting creatures indeed.

Starting today, she is finally on the heat side! Guess she wanted another mouse 😮 she's growing so big.