News: 2 die in rock python attack

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...oa-attack.html

Doesn't sound like have a clue what type of snake it was

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I know, my guess would be burm or rectic?

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23583116

Very, very sad. My condolences go out to the family.
Strange that two boys were killed, I have a hard time seeing how that would happen

Well, there goes our pets.

Non poisonous.

Shoot me.

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I guesswork the press it´s lets forget about autopsy report but let´s just jump to conclusion instead. :rolleyes:

It does seem strange that two were killed. Very odd, seems like there has to be more to the story...

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Originally Posted by Emmastaff

I know, my guess would be burm or rectic?

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http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2619837

I Think it may be an african rock python. :/
Either way the whole ordeal seems a little far fetched. There's probably so much more to this story but they are immediately going to criminalize the snake. If anything, the snakes keeper should be held responsible for being absent minded by leaving the enclosure unlocked and or having an enclosure that doesn't suffice to house such a powerful animal. I still find the whole thing hard to believe. :/

The strangest thing is.. i heard this from someone who has nothing to do with snake community at all, and i feel like this is the last thing we need going on with everything that's happening already

http://globalnews.ca/news/762560/esc...new-brunswick/

Wow :(

I'll reserve judgement until the authorities complete their investigation.

But we will never hear about that, now will we??

My theory is that the python was out cruising in the night and was just heavy enough that when it crawled on top of the boys, it might have accidentally suffocated them. A simialar case happened when an African rock python crawled into a toddler's crib and was just laying on top of them; not attacking them.
Of course, python = scary snake so let's smear it all over the news WITHIN HOURS of the first report before any autopsy.

I hate the other irrelevant notes on the bottom of the USA today page; saying they're everywhere in Florida and that AfRocks are all out vicious. Sounds like an HSUS grunt.

Ulgh...poor little boys. My heart goes out to their parents. But there has to be more to this. I can't help but wonder if something far more intelligent strangled these boys, and is using the snake as a skapegoat.

What Kind Of Python! Burmese Is Way diff From A Ball!

Ps Sorry For The Caps. My Phone Does That Now. :/

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Originally Posted by Anya

Ulgh...poor little boys. My heart goes out to their parents. But there has to be more to this. I can't help but wonder if something far more intelligent strangled these boys, and is using the snake as a skapegoat.

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Certainly wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

i call bull.

First report was a boa... Next it was a python they corrected that statement that it was correct but wrong it was "an anaconda a type of python" ... Actual snake was an African Rock Python based on the last news report that went out. I really believe this entire thing is a fraud and a framed snake... Things do not add up at all.

1) kids didnt scream?
2) second kid waited around to die?
3) umm you could get a report from the pet store but not an ID initially, really?

That's just to start...

Then again, this was in Canada... Eh?


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I really, really want to know what the coroner's report says. Have a feeling the marks will be much less snakey than the media wants to think.

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek

i call bull.

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+1

okay this story sounds like bullcrap.
What snake is big and heavy enough to kill a 5 / 7 year old and still fit through ventilation? Never have I heard of a "serial killer snake" that goes bed to bed killing but not eating and leaving the bodies untouched.

The whole thing sounds stupid. Something's not right here. They didn't even name a species. Probably due to the inconsistency. Would suck to name a burm or anaconda and people be like "really because those weigh this much and can't climb straight up through ventilation"

... :-/

Wonder if it's a cover up for a double homicide...kinda like the kid in Florida.

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I think the story might have been a little more believable if it was only one child. I have my doubts that a snake would attack one child, find that it couldn't swallow it and then do the same thing to the other? That doesn't make much sense to me. The report says they were just strangled.... I don't know much about big snakes but I have a hard time believing that they just go around strangling everything in sight unless they have plans to try and eat it. Also, I think if I saw my friend being attacked (surely there was some kind of struggle) by a giant "monster" at that age, I probably would have ran screaming before it got me next..... just sayin. This story just doesn't seem quite right to me but I feel bad for those kids and their family.

Something seems really fishy about all this. I'm hoping they will release the autopsy results but I won't hold my breath.

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Originally Posted by Anya

Ulgh...poor little boys. My heart goes out to their parents. But there has to be more to this. I can't help but wonder if something far more intelligent strangled these boys, and is using the snake as a skapegoat.

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Ditto to this.

My best guess: someone stole a huge snake from the pet store, strangled the kids, put the snake in the room with their bodies.

there is one link that has videos in it, including an "interview" with the owner, which is most revealing.

http://globalnews.ca/news/762560/esc...new-brunswick/

i still have a hard time believing it. When constricting they only focus on one thing and nothing else. How can it be that it killed both?

Autopsy reports are not yet out there, this is important. Also no charges filed yet, which is also important.

But it was a snake (african rock python) that was never handled or let out, only moved into a box for cage cleaning and maintenance and then returned to the enclosure. Snakes that get handled a lot do not view humans as food and only tag humans sometimes (ram the teeth in and let go and retreat, no pulling no attempt at constricting). Snakes that get handled a lot only do the crazy bites if food smell confuses them, otherwise they would never do a bite followed by constriction.

Two boys dead, how come one didnt wake up in the mayhem? How come they didnt wake up when a giant african rock python came crashing down through the ceiling tiles into the room?

what we do not know is how the scene looked like. If its two boys in the beds dead, in their beds under their blankets, and a python elsewhere, then i dont see how it could be the python. If it was the python, there would be bite marks on both, significant signs of an unusual fight, blankets twisted, bodies apart from the blankets not under them. Humans, and children, do wake up quickly when oxygen supply to the brain is depleted rapidly and will struggle immediately. Maybe they only get a few seconds to struggle, but these few seconds together with the wrapping action of the snake would leave a very disordered scene.

so i still see two other ways: Gas leak / chemical leak, killing the children and freaking out the snake, or murder covered up using the snake. Autopsy reports and more data on how the scene looked like will bring clarity. Bite marks on both bodies would be really, really bad.

Sigh. All just makes me sick. :(

Poor kids!

I'm also calling complete and utter BS. Autopsies won't happen til Tuesday

I heard about this earlier... absolutely tragic.

It seems fishy to me too. I hope that whomever is responsible (snake owner or otherwise) is held accountable.

As per NERDs latest Facebook status, a 3rd child was in the room...WTF!?!?!? That makes it even less likely

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Ok, we need to be thoughtful and LOGICAL about the Python in the news that "possibly" was involved in the death of two children. I am now talking to people on the inside and learning some facts here. We MUST do damage control here and learn what happened before we sign on to any of this. Two children did in fact die and a snake was found in the room. Autopsies are occurring on Tuesday by coroner to see the EXACT cause of death. It was an African Rock Python.... 14' (let's guess that weighs 50 - 60 lbs). There were 3 children sleeping there when this happened. The two brothers died and the third child woke in the morning with no idea of what had happened. It appears possibly the ceiling caved in? Possibly the ceiling collapsed and was the cause of death. The African Rock was found in the room. When approached it was sluggish and NOT with the children. It was NOT attacking anyone. Well, I know pythons and this entire tale sounds WRONG. Pythons do not attack like this, they don't kill one yet along two people without resistance or alarm. They don't abandon their prey easily and will continue to struggle as they attempt to eat a meal that is too large. non of this makes sense to me. We need actual information that has not been turned out by the media. We need to use our EXPERTS and LOGIC to fight this situation and lend a voice of reason. EVERYONE, do not think for a minute a snake actually attacked and killed these two children without knowing way more. From what I am hearing on the inside it does not sound this way one bit!. We all need to assume INNOCENCE on the snake's behalf before any of us say people should not be keeping Pythons and such. They can say that WAY more about keeping dogs, more importantly LARGE BREEDS. We are working on this, we all need to do damage control and EDUCATE anyone that runs with these BOGUS FACTS. More to come.....

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Awful that people have died, but I also have a hard time believing this is possible.

All other obvious evidence aside, as a 7 year old, I honestly think I would have kicked that snake's ass. Or at least made a hell of a mess resisting. I mean, I would have been in little league by that time, and although that is one powerful predator, it hasn't evolved a means of defense against a weapon. What 7 year old boy doesn't have some kind of object designed for whacking other objects in their room? That's practically all I did at that age.

I realize I'm being a little ridiculous here, but I have a very hard time believing this situation could happen. Especially in such a way where somebody would walk into the room and initially think the kids are asleep. Simply no way that a kid wouldn't put up a LOT of struggle, by snake standards. They don't generally hunt prey with self-awareness and opposable thumbs.

Again, whatever happened to these kids was awful, but I can't imagine this snake angle is even possible.

Ed. Just read Squamish's post above. This makes it even less likely. The thing didn't even hiss? Not to mention the sound of a 60 lb animal dropping 10 feet seems like it'd wake you up.

The scenario is getting a bit ridiculous by now, isnt it?

Worst case scenario, if the snake did it:
2 boys, age 5 and 7, not too young to jump out of their beds and cause mayhem and scream and shout. And even if they get strangled by a snake they will wake up and have a few seconds to cause mayhem.

A really big snake comes crashing through the ceiling, breaking a ceiling tile, falls to the floor, noone wakes up. The snake approaches one, does a catch-bite, biting then pulling hard followed by strangling, which involves wrapping around the boy. The other one doesnt wake up, no scream, nothing. The snake rejects the prey item, or attempts to swallow and fails, then moves on to the second one, again, cath-bite, pulling in, strangling action.

in the end both dead and the python is somewhere else.

Now with a third boy in the room, WTF? its unreal even with two boys, age 5 and 7. What age was the surviving third boy? What i remember from when i was 5 was soldering electronic components out of old electronics for fun, climbing trees to insane altitudes, explaining to others that crystals dont just exist but have to grow, stuff like that, i would have put up a fight, no way for a python to kill me silently.


Really, the autopsy reports are the thing. I am convinced when both bodies have bite-marks consistent with the python.

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Originally Posted by SquamishSerpents

As per NERDs latest Facebook status, a 3rd child was in the room...WTF!?!?!? That makes it even less likely

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Quote:

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Ok, we need to be thoughtful and LOGICAL about the Python in the news that "possibly" was involved in the death of two children. I am now talking to people on the inside and learning some facts here. We MUST do damage control here and learn what happened before we sign on to any of this. Two children did in fact die and a snake was found in the room. Autopsies are occurring on Tuesday by coroner to see the EXACT cause of death. It was an African Rock Python.... 14' (let's guess that weighs 50 - 60 lbs). There were 3 children sleeping there when this happened. The two brothers died and the third child woke in the morning with no idea of what had happened. It appears possibly the ceiling caved in? Possibly the ceiling collapsed and was the cause of death. The African Rock was found in the room. When approached it was sluggish and NOT with the children. It was NOT attacking anyone. Well, I know pythons and this entire tale sounds WRONG. Pythons do not attack like this, they don't kill one yet along two people without resistance or alarm. They don't abandon their prey easily and will continue to struggle as they attempt to eat a meal that is too large. non of this makes sense to me. We need actual information that has not been turned out by the media. We need to use our EXPERTS and LOGIC to fight this situation and lend a voice of reason. EVERYONE, do not think for a minute a snake actually attacked and killed these two children without knowing way more. From what I am hearing on the inside it does not sound this way one bit!. We all need to assume INNOCENCE on the snake's behalf before any of us say people should not be keeping Pythons and such. They can say that WAY more about keeping dogs, more importantly LARGE BREEDS. We are working on this, we all need to do damage control and EDUCATE anyone that runs with these BOGUS FACTS. More to come.....

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OK now i guess we know what to do. Get real data.

i put out two possible scenarios for YOU to DISPROVE:


- gas leak or chemical leak, killing the boys, freaking out the snake

- murder, using the snake as a cover


i really REALLY want to see if they find bite-marks consistent with the python on both bodies, or not. They bite hard for a pull-bite, pull in, strangle, kill, then attempt to swallow. Autopsy reports all the way, these are CRUCIAL. Also data on how the scene looked like upon arrival of owner / relatives / police.

accidental double-post

Can the public in any way demand that this information is released?

This I am not sure of, but I want the full report, as I'm sure everybody in the reptile community does!

Wouldn't a gas / chemical leak kill the third boy?

Also, wouldn't a heavy snake like that break the bones of a five year old? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by DestinyLynette

Wouldn't a gas / chemical leak kill the third boy?

Also, wouldn't a heavy snake like that break the bones of a five year old? Just a thought.

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Not if the third boy was much older, or if the younger boys had compromised immune systems. Also depends on where the gas/chemical leak originated from and where boy #3 was in proximity to it. A whole host of factors still need to be accounted for. Very sad and interesting case, I'll definitely be following.

Oh sheesh, just had to field a call from the monster-in-law. She's deathly afraid of snakes and just spent an hour on the phone pestering us to get rid of ours - never mind that the largest is a 6' BCI who is sweet as pie - because one of them might strangle my eight year old daughter in her sleep. :rage:

Any way you look at this it is a tragedy... If, in fact, this is what we are being told<doubtful>, this store owner is guilty of negligent homicide. I find it very difficult to believe, likely because I simply do not want to believe it. Snakes can kill and we all know it.

The autopsy will tell us what we need to know, I don't know how Canada's laws work but a case this high profile will certainly call for the public to be made aware. That snake is probably dead by now.... A waste of a beautiful animal, but we do the same to pit bulls when they kill a child, much more common than this.

Will United States politicians latch onto this as a way to try to limit the ownership of these animals? Possibly, but it would be a long fight.

Sounds to me like the the store owner strangled the two unrelated boys and covered it up with a bogus story...as his child was unharmed in another room...

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Autopsy will more than likely rule it as foul play...
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Lets put it this way:

Two boys, age 5 and 7, are dead. The suspect is a big african rock python. The suspect will be euthanized no matter what.

We are the defense. That one african rock python will die or maybe is already dead. But we still need to defend and find a way to argue and convince that the snake did NOT kill the two boys. If we fail to put up a defense, the judgement will be: Large constricting snakes can escape their enclosures and can then kill two boys, age 5 and 7, in their sleep.

And there is no judge, and the jury is the populus, its a media war. We need to be smart and alert and better be one step ahead. And if anything else is to blame for these two deaths, we need to first find out, then prove it and make a case, then publicise it.

If we fail and this goes down in the historical record as one python escaping and killing two boys in their sleep, it would even get used as a precedent in Europe and even here in Europe, where things vary a great deal between nations, it will have an impact. The worst case they bring against constricting snakes is one case where a burm killed a baby. If this crap materializes, even in Europe all anti-snake people in politics will switch from the "a burm killed a baby" - story to the "a rock python killed two boys age 5 and 7" - story.

This is so big, so tremendously huge, it might flatten the hobby. And dont think snake keepers outside the USA will be safe. The fallout from this might even hit the EU. So we need to be informed and smart and need to cooperate.


We need to be the defense for one african rock python currently "charged" with multiple homicide. And the prosecution is the media, and the defense also is the media. No real court here so far. I think its a "play dead and you are dead" situation. We need to unite, think hard, put together a defense, then approach the media, and fight the media battles, and then it moves on to legislative actions, and there will be more political fights.

1st step: get informed, and DO NOT underestimate this.

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Originally Posted by MsMissy

Any way you look at this it is a tragedy... If, in fact, this is what we are being told<doubtful>, this store owner is guilty of negligent homicide. I find it very difficult to believe, likely because I simply do not want to believe it. Snakes can kill and we all know it.

The autopsy will tell us what we need to know, I don't know how Canada's laws work but a case this high profile will certainly call for the public to be made aware. That snake is probably dead by now.... A waste of a beautiful animal, but we do the same to pit bulls when they kill a child, much more common than this.

Will United States politicians latch onto this as a way to try to limit the ownership of these animals? Possibly, but it would be a long fight.

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i do not believe this. I was able to put up a fight at age 5, even more so at age 7. If a big python comes crashing down through the ceiling, i would have woken up. Especially when my 7-year-old friend in the same room puts up a short but hard fight against a giant python, and a giant python goes into wrapping action. And then it would be minutes between the python strangling one and trying but failing to eat it and then attacking the other.

It makes no sense.

A couple of things to remember.

The snake has ALREADY been convicted in the media.

There has been no medical report as of yet so actual cause of death is not known. These things tend to take a long time to complete. Much of the story will already be out of the media by the time the truth is known.

Once the actual cause of death is known, (and I'm betting that the snake will be exonerated) there will be NO followup reports in the media explaining that the snake was not at fault.

I heard this on the radio on my way to work. In Germany. And my reaction was What the 'instert curse words here.' All they said was two bous were killed by a python and that the house was a reptile store. First thought check here. Sure enough... I really hope it gets put out quick that the snake did not do it as seems obvious to everyone here.... But a good portion of damage is already done because of the media jumping to conclusions and reporting crap with no real information. Sad.. For the kids and their family, and for snake owners world wide. Media is just perpetuating the fear of the public.

Tragic that these little boys lost their lives, no matter how it happened.

Curious what the autopsy will reveal, a lot does not add up here. Then again "investigative" reporting on this story has been very lacking. A lot of buzz words being thrown around by the media and no real facts about what really took place.