Can anyone help me with these

Hi
I have 2 balls that i just cant seam to get down and could use some help
first one is a bel (mojave X mojave) pos fire to a bee (spider X pastel) he is about 5 months old now
I was holding him back as he would not eat for the longest time and i will not part with a non eater
(tho he never misses a meal now)
obviously he is a pastel and has to be mojave but is it a bee? and did i hit the fire ?
I do not have enough exp. with fire to tell so please if anyone can helphttp://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9spmzswz.jpg
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3etuzkzz.jpghttp://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7b5hodss.jpghttp://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/...pseqeaopmx.jpg

the second one I bought off a friend
He is a from a huffman 100% het pied X pied
and this one is my fav snake in my whole collection
he has a super dark pattern and very bright yellow sides and is really odd patterened
unfortunitaly these pics do not do his color justice but you will see he is odd
my only real question on him is is he a huffman? or just a fluke pattern
http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/...psnrzpyygp.jpghttp://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4qiy16uo.jpghttp://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/...psdftaku0o.jpghttp://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/...psqdkf7lwr.jpg

The first one looks like a pastel movjave Fire to me it doesn't look like it has spider in it. The second one I have no idea because sometimes being het pied messes up the pattern pretty good. The guy you have looks better than all the Huffman I have seen granted I don't have experience with that morph. Sorry I couldn't really help you on the second one. Amazing snakes though

Had that bee ever been bred to anything else because they first animal does not have mojave in it (or spider/fire for that matter), its a normal pastel. Youre either looking at a split clutch situation or retained sperm.

The second one I would have guessed leopard pastel if I didnt know the pairing, but its probably just the het pied messing with the pattern. There is also a chance of him being a jungle, they do pop up occasionally. I dont see anything that would make me think huffman though.

I agree number one is pastel. Not sure on number two.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aalomon

Had that bee ever been bred to anything else because they first animal does not have mojave in it (or spider/fire for that matter), its a normal pastel. Youre either looking at a split clutch situation or retained sperm.

The second one I would have guessed leopard pastel if I didnt know the pairing, but its probably just the het pied messing with the pattern. There is also a chance of him being a jungle, they do pop up occasionally. I dont see anything that would make me think huffman though.

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this was her first and only pairing but like i said his dad was a bel so he would have to have the mojave unless he was lesser or butter x mojave but he has never thrown anything but mojave before and was bought as a super mojave and if my understanding on that is correct he would have then to be a lesser or butter or whatever else caused the bel right?

That's why Im thinking there's a record mixup somewhere because that first baby does not have mojave, lesser or butter, it's a straight up pastel. How long have you had the bee female? Do you own any other male ball pythons?

only reasons for wondering about the the spider was thishttp://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9ggr0osm.jpg that looks close to mine and i know that mojave bees look different than mojave so i wasnt sure granted my cammera is horrable and does not give the best color

ive had the bee since she was 80 grams and yes i have a jigsaw male but he was not breeder size last year my only breeder was the bel

well, I would like to thank everyone who tried to help. I think with all the time I have invested in this Pastel/whatever that I may just breed him next season to a few norms and then all will be answered, and whats the worst that can happen? i get a few cluches of pastels? that would not upset me. I know that genetics are screwey things and do not always work as we think they will or in manners that they should. I did assume that the het. pied was just that, I know that pied gene messes things up a bit in its hets, but well he is just so odd, and its not just his pattern but his color too. If you all are intrested in how the breeding turns out I will post results when he does breed, again thanks for the help.