Morph het clowns

It has been observed that spider het clowns are visibly different that regular spiders and desert het clowns differ from regular deserts.

Has anyone noticed this to be true of other morph het clowns? For example, in a clutch of pastel poss. het clowns, can you pick out the hets? How about lesser het clowns, fire het clowns, and yellowbelly het clowns? I feel that poss hets should never be sold as anything other than that, regardless of markers, but if you were gonna hold back one, what would you look for.

Can you point me to a pic of a spider het clown?

There was a thread on the VPI breeders bragging post years ago with some het clowns that looked fairly clown like. I’ve wondered if egg stress can expose the clown gene in some hets. Maybe having another defective gene is enough stress to also make clown co-dominant?

I have a 4,000 gram VPI produced female that threw a clown like daughter years ago although she was sold 2nd hand to me as a normal. I loaned her out twice to breed to clown males on the off chance she was a possible het but no eggs either time. She has been a very inconsistent producer but her last clutch (14 eggs) was to a spider and I have a really faded spider daughter that I'm hoping will be a better breeder. I may have to break down and buy a het clown male for them.

Its funny you bring this up. Yes there are some slight visible signs that I and some other breeder's have noticed with clown hets. I had noticed this a few years ago from my own observations and talking with some other breeder's they had also noticed this. Some of the hets tends to thrown very light colored head patterns. I recently proved out a pastel het clown I had picked up from a breeder who sold her to me as a possible het. From talking to the breeder and from seeing pictures we both believed that she was 100% het clown. Well she produced 4 eggs for me this last season and out of the 4 egg's I hatch a pastel clown 1.1 petwer's 66% het clowns and a normal 66% het clown. Proving the female was 100% het clown as we thought. Well out of the 1.1 pewters the female also showed this light head coloring. I am working with the original breeder I purchased the mom from as I traded him this female pewter for another combo morph poss het clown. I am holding on to the rest of the clutch as I am not sure about the male pewter but the normal poss het has the same light head so she is being held back to see if I can prove her out as well. I will post a some pics to show what I mean. I am not saying that there is a het clown marker or this is 100% reliable but it is something I and some other breeder's are using to hold back poss het's.

pastel het clown mom
http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/y...30_9329_cr.jpg

hatchlings pewter's
http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/y...C/CIMG2038.jpg

Can you figure out which pewter is the female from the pic???
Hope this helps and hope you can see what Im talking about, sorry for making it such a long post :D

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Can you point me to a pic of a spider het clown?

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http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-and-much-more!

The second pic from the top is 3 spider het clowns. They don't really look clownlike, they just have an odd look that is consistent in all the spider 100% het clowns that have been produced.

The Pro Exotics website has a pic of a desert het clown that looks completely different than a normal desert. They even comment that the clown gene is visible in the desert het clowns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Action Reptiles

Can you figure out which pewter is the female from the pic???
Hope this helps and hope you can see what Im talking about, sorry for making it such a long post :D

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The long post is very appreciated! From your description of the light head I would say the female is the one on the left.

Your pastel het clown has another marker that I read about in an old post on another forum. Both of my 100% het clowns have it, and so far almost every 100% het normal that I have seen has it. It doesn't always show up on pastels since the pastel gene scrambles pattern so much, but it is very clear on yours. I have also seen a 100% het normal that did not have it because it was very reduced/banded. Do you know what I am talking about? Your pewter has it as well, although it is more scrambled.

Please not that I am only talking about a marker. It is not a 100% reliable gauge, and just because a possible het does not have it, doesn't mean it is not het. Not all het pieds have the train tracks on thier bellies. Some possible hets that have markers never prove out. The genetics that give each normal it's own unique look sometimes cover up or scramble the het markers.

I have always noticed that Het Clowns are brighter.

Lighter overall compared to other counterparts. When I get home, I will do some photowork.

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-and-much-more!

The second pic from the top is 3 spider het clowns. They don't really look clownlike, they just have an odd look that is consistent in all the spider 100% het clowns that have been produced.
...

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Is it the break in the dark pattern at the back of the head, the un-brokenness of the yellow down the back, both or something else you are seeing in spider het clowns?

Here is a really old pic of my spider female. She has the same back of head but not the striping. Was just noticing how faded out her black has become the other day but she is my only spider so I have nothing to compare her too. Do remember reading that the black on clowns fades out with age but for all I know that’s a normal spider thing too.

http://snakemorphs.com/images/F07DMVT01_med.jpg

Both, all the 100% het clown spiders I have seen have long sections of yellow striping down the middle of thier backs and an overall brighter appearance, but I have only seen photos of 2-3 clutches. I have also seen quite a few striped spiders that were not het clown, but it is noteworthy that all the spider het clowns have a similar look to them. Any pics of the clownlike daughter of your big girl?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

Any pics of the clownlike daughter of your big girl?

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Here she is

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...3/f02sremj.jpg

This is a really informative/interesting thread!

Although it's kind of depressing because, after looking at all the het. clowns, it makes me think my spider 50% het clown does not carry the gene. :(