Buyers beware!

Alright, because this seems to have been missed by a few others, Not all.... But quite a few (*edit* nevermind, it ended up being covered later by most)

What is the temperature of the ROOM you had the tank in? ( what was it at the time?)
What are the WATTAGES of the two bulbs on BOTH heat lamps?

Next! What size UTH did you have on the bottom of the tank, and did you have a thermostat plugged into this to regulate the temperature?

Sounds like things got too hot. Do you have ACCURATE gauges to measure the temps in all areas of the cage? ( A digital Thermometer, and or a Temp gun?) All of these questions, are important.

Wow....I'm guessing it's been ssoooo long since we've had any serious drama here that folks just can't help themselves but to jump into something at the first opportunity. So many instant assumptions on all sides....so many ready (anxiously eager, even) to assign blame immediately based on nothing more than those same assumptions.

Personally, I'd like to see everyone take a step back and a deep, cleansing breath and calm down. But I know y'all will do what you want, regardless of my wishes. :P

WHY did the snake die? NO ONE knows. If the snake looked as healthy and lively as the OP described when it was purchased, brought home and first put into its holding tank...then why on earth should the seller have "known" he was selling a sick snake? From what we've been given to go by, the seller could not have known the animal was in danger of imminent death any more than the buyer could. So, the seller (so far as we can tell from the meager facts given) should not be held responsible for the untimely and mysterious death of the snake. He has not "scammed" anyone, and we don't have a shred of evidence to suggest otherwise.....according to the OP's own words.

How the seller chooses to handle the matter after being made aware of the snake's immediate death is another matter entirely. Anyone with an ounce of decent business sense would want to make things right with their brand-new customer.....and, again based strictly on the OP's own words....it sounded to me like he did just that. Granted, it wasn't an immediate fix....and I can understand the frustration in being forced to wait for something the OP obviously had been working hard toward for a long time already.....but I don't see anything wrong with the offer that was made to help make things right again.

I'm frustrated with some members who seem anxious to jump on the blame bandwagon. Picking apart the OP and grilling him on ridiculous issues of semantics like "quarantine" or his reasons for using a separate holding tank initially. Personally, I thought it was a smart move, and I had done the exact same thing with my very first snake purchase so many years ago. IF the snake had mites, I didn't want them getting established in the complicated set-up....so he went into a much simpler set-up until I was confident he was fine and mite-free. Why should such a move earn him darts thrown at him?

People also need to be more patient when asking their questions and realize that not everyone is on here all hours of the day or refreshing the pages every few minutes. If an "inquiry" thread gets busy and 30 people are suddenly flinging questions left and right, is the OP suddenly a bad guy because he's not logged in to see all that activity being thrown his way??? A lot of questions and thread activity does NOT equal a reasonable amount of time passing for a response. :rolleyes:

This post seems to have caused a lot of consternation:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broadude

I could post them, but why?


He's already been told why the animal died and what he did wrong. So the subject is closed..he has a new snake and is very happy with it. Maybe later, he'll come back.

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I'm going to go out on a very long, shaky limb here and see if I can get into broadude's head and guess what she meant. I believe she that because so many were so intent on throwing out reasons why the snake must have died and why it was automatically the boy's fault. "Y'all told him why the animal died and what he did wrong...so what else is there for him to say??? He has a new snake now and is happy and doesn't need the bother of these unreasonable accusations" <---- My interpretation of her words in that post.

All in all.....it's possible that the OP did something that caused the snake's death. Nothing wrong with wanting to get to the bottom of it by asking specific questions about heating methods in the 10g tank. But such questions don't need to be accusatory in nature. That doesn't help anyone learn anything.

It's also entirely probable that the snake died for reasons beyond any human control....either the seller's or the buyer's. So why all the heated finger-pointing??

To the OP......I'm sorry your snake died. I know that had to be very tough to experience. I hope you're willing to learn a little bit about communication on the 'Net and how to avoid getting involved in this sort of mud-fight in the future......and I deeply hope you're willing to closely examine your own actions and be willing to learn from them if you did make an error along the way. And I sincerely hope you'll stay around as a part of the community here to learn more and to make friends along the way. (Seems like you've already made a good one. ;) )

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Originally Posted by JLC

But such questions don't need to be accusatory in nature.

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With no offense, I could not disagree more.

Those in glass houses should not throw stones. The OP did exactly that.

I've been following this thread since it started and up until now decided not to post because I wanted to view it with more of a level head. In reality, NONE of us will ever know what exactly happened to the OP's BP until he gets a necropsy done by a qualified Vet. To the OP, if going to a Vet is too expensive for you, try a local Vet school, they tend to not charge as much since it's a learning facility. That will be your only 100% for sure way of knowing what happened. With that said, there may be a chance that the Vet/Vet Student can't find anything wrong, that it was just your BP's time to go. I am very sorry for your loss, and I can't imagine how hurt and disappointed you must be for this to be your first actual hands on experience with a snake. From the information that you gave us, it sounds to me like the Breeder was exercising good customer service by offering to give you another BP for free, and even going an extra mile to pay for your ticket to the show. As for the $50.00 shipping cost, that is about normal for shipping a live animal. When I had my spider BP shipped to me, it cost me $66.00 for shipping. Also, we don't know if that particular breeder is set up to ship based on the fact that a lot of us have never heard of this guy, and if he had given you the information that he -could- ship, that info was also not shared with us. Also, some breeders will refuse to ship live animals in cold weather. This isn't to antagonize you or to 'punish' you, it's for the safety of the animal. Could he ship it? Yes. But no matter how many heat packs he throws in with the snake, with the weather being how it is in the winter up north, it's not realistically possible to ship a 100% health guaranteed snake during this season.
I hope everything goes well with your new BP, and if you have any other questions/concerns about him, feel free to ask;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Wow....I'm guessing it's been ssoooo long since we've had any serious drama here that folks just can't help themselves but to jump into something at the first opportunity. So many instant assumptions on all sides....so many ready (anxiously eager, even) to assign blame immediately based on nothing more than those same assumptions.

Personally, I'd like to see everyone take a step back and a deep, cleansing breath and calm down. But I know y'all will do what you want, regardless of my wishes. :P

WHY did the snake die? NO ONE knows. If the snake looked as healthy and lively as the OP described when it was purchased, brought home and first put into its holding tank...then why on earth should the seller have "known" he was selling a sick snake? From what we've been given to go by, the seller could not have known the animal was in danger of imminent death any more than the buyer could. So, the seller (so far as we can tell from the meager facts given) should not be held responsible for the untimely and mysterious death of the snake. He has not "scammed" anyone, and we don't have a shred of evidence to suggest otherwise.....according to the OP's own words.

How the seller chooses to handle the matter after being made aware of the snake's immediate death is another matter entirely. Anyone with an ounce of decent business sense would want to make things right with their brand-new customer.....and, again based strictly on the OP's own words....it sounded to me like he did just that. Granted, it wasn't an immediate fix....and I can understand the frustration in being forced to wait for something the OP obviously had been working hard toward for a long time already.....but I don't see anything wrong with the offer that was made to help make things right again.

I'm frustrated with some members who seem anxious to jump on the blame bandwagon. Picking apart the OP and grilling him on ridiculous issues of semantics like "quarantine" or his reasons for using a separate holding tank initially. Personally, I thought it was a smart move, and I had done the exact same thing with my very first snake purchase so many years ago. IF the snake had mites, I didn't want them getting established in the complicated set-up....so he went into a much simpler set-up until I was confident he was fine and mite-free. Why should such a move earn him darts thrown at him?

People also need to be more patient when asking their questions and realize that not everyone is on here all hours of the day or refreshing the pages every few minutes. If an "inquiry" thread gets busy and 30 people are suddenly flinging questions left and right, is the OP suddenly a bad guy because he's not logged in to see all that activity being thrown his way??? A lot of questions and thread activity does NOT equal a reasonable amount of time passing for a response. :rolleyes:

This post seems to have caused a lot of consternation:


I'm going to go out on a very long, shaky limb here and see if I can get into broadude's head and guess what she meant. I believe she that because so many were so intent on throwing out reasons why the snake must have died and why it was automatically the boy's fault. "Y'all told him why the animal died and what he did wrong...so what else is there for him to say??? He has a new snake now and is happy and doesn't need the bother of these unreasonable accusations" <---- My interpretation of her words in that post.

All in all.....it's possible that the OP did something that caused the snake's death. Nothing wrong with wanting to get to the bottom of it by asking specific questions about heating methods in the 10g tank. But such questions don't need to be accusatory in nature. That doesn't help anyone learn anything.

It's also entirely probable that the snake died for reasons beyond any human control....either the seller's or the buyer's. So why all the heated finger-pointing??

To the OP......I'm sorry your snake died. I know that had to be very tough to experience. I hope you're willing to learn a little bit about communication on the 'Net and how to avoid getting involved in this sort of mud-fight in the future......and I deeply hope you're willing to closely examine your own actions and be willing to learn from them if you did make an error along the way. And I sincerely hope you'll stay around as a part of the community here to learn more and to make friends along the way. (Seems like you've already made a good one. ;) )

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You have a pretty good bead on me. Thanks :)

I have learned a long time ago..that no matter how many times I edit, change, repost, rearrange the words..there will always be SOME that misunderstand the intent behind the words. It's usually the more discerning that have read my posts for a long time and have noticed that I don't usually intentionally try to antagonize anyone...but there will always be those few that look/misunderstand/want to be antagonized.

When the OP contacted me to buy a snake, his snake had already been dead for a while and he wasn't sure if it was dead or hibernating (I assume he had never experienced a dead snake before).

Just going over the highpoints..nothing he said convinced me that he had done anything that hurt the snake so I encouraged him to post his EXPERIENCE. He posted a "Bad Guy" post. I over looked it because it was his FIRST time and I was hoping that people would see it for what it was...a novice's attempt to warn someone else. If he had proven to be wrong (I did tell him that I wanted him to post also because those with more experience than I could see the pics and judge for themselves). However, the thread did not go the way that I was hoping it would (the truth of the matter is that I SENT HIM TO FAUNA..where the older people are that might recognize what may be wrong...but he couldn't post, something about being unable to register.

So, I told him to post his experience here. I didn't have time to go in depth with all the things that might have gone wrong, and I was also hoping that people would ask the questions that I may have forgotten and try and help him pinpoint anything in his environment..I also saw pics of that and for a beginner it was realllly nice.

I met the young man, he showed me his identification..he has a job, he can afford to take care of the snake, however, the snake had been dead for quite a while and I believe that a necroposy would have been inconclusive at that point (so I didn't suggest one, I could have, probably should have, because I know that...everyone doesn't know about necropsy, scammers, etc.

I do hope he comes back too, he was very well-spoken, seemed very well rounded and nice. He wasn't angry about the snake..just very very sad and not understanding how it died. I did not get the impression that he was lying at any time and if he had dropped something on the snake or had it too hot, I am sure he would have admitted it. He wasn't trying to get a free snake, he was going to pay for it.

Wil: I am going to say this once, because you seem to be quite unobservant. I was hoping that you would figure it out sooner or later..but this is twice that you have mentioned my name in a negative way. FYI: It is a combination of my last name and first two intitals. I work for the Federal goverment, and that's the way the goverment usually condenses employees' names..it seemed the easy way to remember my user name at the time that I created my profile. There is no intent to mislead as my profile clearly indicates I am a woman. You also need to change your modus operani (sp), as you seem to have a habit of accusing people of seeking attention..when you are the one trying hardest to stir the pot.:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broadude

You have a pretty good bead on me. Thanks :)

I have learned a long time ago..that no matter how many times I edit, change, repost, rearrange the words..there will always be SOME that misunderstand the intent behind the words. It's usually the more discerning that have read my posts for a long time and have noticed that I don't usually intentionally try to antagonize anyone...but there will always be those few that look/misunderstand/want to be antagonized.

When the OP contacted me to buy a snake, his snake had already been dead for a while and he wasn't sure if it was dead or hibernating (I assume he had never experienced a dead snake before).

Just going over the highpoints..nothing he said convinced me that he had done anything that hurt the snake so I encouraged him to post his EXPERIENCE. He posted a "Bad Guy" post. I over looked it because it was his FIRST time and I was hoping that people would see it for what it was...a novice's attempt to warn someone else. If he had proven to be wrong (I did tell him that I wanted him to post also because those with more experience than I could see the pics and judge for themselves). However, the thread did not go the way that I was hoping it would (the truth of the matter is that I SENT HIM TO FAUNA..where the older people are that might recognize what may be wrong...but he couldn't post, something about being unable to register.

So, I told him to post his experience here. I didn't have time to go in depth with all the things that might have gone wrong, and I was also hoping that people would ask the questions that I may have forgotten and try and help him pinpoint anything in his environment..I also saw pics of that and for a beginner it was realllly nice.

I met the young man, he showed me his identification..he has a job, he can afford to take care of the snake, however, the snake had been dead for quite a while and I believe that a necroposy would have been inconclusive at that point (so I didn't suggest one, I could have, probably should have, because I know that...everyone doesn't know about necropsy, scammers, etc.

I do hope he comes back too, he was very well-spoken, seemed very well rounded and nice. He wasn't angry about the snake..just very very sad and not understanding how it died. I did not get the impression that he was lying at any time and if he had dropped something on the snake or had it too hot, I am sure he would have admitted it. He wasn't trying to get a free snake, he was going to pay for it.

Wil: I am going to say this once, because you seem to be quite unobservant. I was hoping that you would figure it out sooner or later..but this is twice that you have mentioned my name in a negative way. FYI: It is a combination of my last name and first two intitals. I work for the Federal goverment, and that's the way the goverment usually condenses employees' names..it seemed the easy way to remember my user name at the time that I created my profile. There is no intent to mislead as my profile clearly indicates I am a woman. You also need to change your modus operani (sp), as you seem to have a habit of accusing people of seeking attention..when you are the one trying hardest to stir the pot.:rolleyes:

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That was much better.

So Broadude is a gal?! almost choked on my popcorn reading this thread.

I have to ask.... because while some may disagree, I think this is totally relevant. What kind of snake was it? Was it a normal ball python? how much did you pay for it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

So Broadude is a gal?! almost choked on my popcorn reading this thread.

I have to ask.... because while some may disagree, I think this is totally relevant. What kind of snake was it? Was it a normal ball python? how much did you pay for it?

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Ummmm...yep! Sorry to disappoint you. :oops:

Since he's not here and I do have the answers, if you don't mind, I'll answer and when/if he comes back he can correct any areas in which I am wrong.

The pictures that he showed me revealed a Normal hatchling (I shared the pic with a mod..they aren't my pics to post to everyone).

The price on the canister that the snake came in said 25.00 CBB, and he was willing to pay 50.00 for a replacement because that's how badly he wanted a BP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broadude

The price on the canister that the snake came in said 25.00 CBB, and he was willing to pay 50.00 for a replacement because that's how badly he wanted a BP.

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Hold on one moment.In his OP he said the breeder was going to replace the snake for him at the next show.Now after you leading him he came here to slam the breeder.I dont understand how everyone else can go post on fauna but he was unable to :confused:.You said you wanted him to post on fauna because the people are "older" thier :weirdface.When did people get older by just going to fauna? Now you say everything is peachy because you sold him a snake,did you help correct his husbandry problems or just take his money :confused:.Just to be clear i am not taking a stab at you because of your gender,i am just confused by all the secretcy between you and the OP the last 24hrs here.One more thing if you and Wes dislike each other because of something that happened on fauna we dont need it here please ;).Now back to our FRIENDLY forum :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Hold on one moment.In his OP he said the breeder was going to replace the snake for him at the next show.Now after you leading him he came here to slam the breeder.I dont understand how everyone else can go post on fauna but he was unable to :confused:.You said you wanted him to post on fauna because the people are "older" thier :weirdface.When did people get older by just going to fauna? Now you say everything is peachy because you sold him a snake,did you help correct his husbandry problems or just take his money :confused:.Just to be clear i am not taking a stab at you because of your gender,i am just confused by all the secretcy between you and the OP the last 24hrs here.One more thing if you and Wes dislike each other because of something that happened on fauna we dont need it here please ;).Now back to our FRIENDLY forum :P

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Please go re-read my post. It is too obvious that you didn't read it.