Kid slaps mom

A lot of good points brought up in this thread; however, I think the people that are "pro- spanking" and the ones that are "anti-spanking" are never really going to see eye to eye. In my college speech class a debate was started over this issue, and it got pretty heated. When you're telling somebody that they're basically a bad parent, things can get pretty heated.

We all have different cultures, and different upbringings, and I don't think one person should say another person and their culture is "wrong" or "barbaric". If you lose respect for someone because of the way they do things, well that's too bad. Everybody's entitled to raise a child how they see fit as long as they're concerned about the child's best interest. But to say that they're barbaric.. I think that's just over the top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jae iLL

A lot of good points brought up in this thread; however, I think the people that are "pro- spanking" and the ones that are "anti-spanking" are never really going to see eye to eye. In my college speech class a debate was started over this issue, and it got pretty heated. When you're telling somebody that they're basically a bad parent, things can get pretty heated.

We all have different cultures, and different upbringings, and I don't think one person should say another person and their culture is "wrong" or "barbaric". If you lose respect for someone because of the way they do things, well that's too bad. Everybody's entitled to raise a child how they see fit as long as they're concerned about the child's best interest. But to say that they're barbaric.. I think that's just over the top.

---

I agree that pro vs anti spanking people will have a hard time seeing eye to eye. However, I disagree that cultural diversity or upbringing justifies raising kids in an unhealthy way. Using that argument, we can say that the religious groups that believe that marrying a twelve year old girl to a forty year old man is ok or that the cultures that practice genital mutilation of young girls is ok or that cultures that refuse to educate girls are ok or any number of practices that are not, in fact, ok or healthy or helpful or good. We have to look at spanking and physical punishment without backing away from it because we don't wish to offend those who disagree.

I believe that spanking a child or physically hurting a child does not help them grow or learn what I want them to learn. You can change behavior with physical punishment and with pain, but that does not mean it is helpful longterm. What does spanking really teach?

Let's use the example of the kid who slapped his mom. Say she chose to discipline him by whacking him right across the face after he slapped her. She *might* have changed his behavior. He will at least think twice about slapping his mom again. But what has he learned? He has learned that hitting his mom results in being hit back. He has learned that hitting is an effective and appropriate tool for controlling other people' behavior.

What would *I* want him to learn? I would want to teach him how to communicate effectively and problem solve withOUT using physical violence. I would want to teach him to respect his mother. I would want to teach him some self control. I do not think smacking him would accomplish all of those goals and it would accomplish some other things that I really really do not want to teach my kids.

How would I deal with this? First of all, it would only happen once. I would not make it possible for him to smack me again. I would be SURE to catch his hand before it connected and block a slap. He cannot be allowed to repeat that behavior-- practice makes perfect, yknow? Then, after the first slap, I would seperate him for a cooling off. He would go somewhere and sit alone until *I* cooled off and until he was able to talk without freaking out. Then, I'd take him for a walk or I'd take him outside to help check fences or something. We WOULD talk. He would receive some sort of restriction for crossing that line. If it was a pattern, he'd be at a doctor's or counselor's. This sounds namby pamby but my resolve is strong-- I would continue to address this and prevent more by attention and WORK. It's not soemthing you can fix fast.

So, lots of words here, but I really felt the need to address this post, particularly the part I bolded. We are not entiteled to raise our kids any way we see fit even if we have their best interest at heart. Lots of things are not allowed and not ok. As parents we MUST think about exactly what we are teaching them. Know that if you use spanking or hitting or whacking or anything similar, you are teaching much much more than a simple deterring of bad behavior. You are teaching and propagating the message that hitting is a good solution to problems and that bigger people and people in power can and should hit to keep order and lots lots more.

So even if all 'spankers' won't hear me or see eye to eye with me, I hope some spankers will think about exactly what they are teaching and maybe come up with some creative solutions to parenting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZinniaZ

He has learned that hitting is an effective and appropriate tool for controlling other people' behavior.

What would *I* want him to learn? I would want to teach him how to communicate effectively and problem solve withOUT using physical violence. I would want to teach him to respect his mother. I would want to teach him some self control. I do not think smacking him would accomplish all of those goals and it would accomplish some other things that I really really do not want to teach my kids.

How would I deal with this? First of all, it would only happen once. I would not make it possible for him to smack me again. I would be SURE to catch his hand before it connected and block a slap.

---

No insult intended here.

Have you ever worked with problem children, those who are most prone to be physical?

Good luck on the only getting it once you'll catch it before it lands.

Trust is part of what you seem to be using and if you're truly going to trust you may not see something coming.

Anyway, that's a very small thing.

There is also a difference between a swatter and a spanker. I figure a spanking is a minimum of three whacks and could go on for a great many more. My poor parents, I used to laugh, which did not help my situation, but , well, that was long ago.

I swatted my kids, a good swift one to the flesh of the bottom when I felt they needed it. It was seldom, but did happen on occasion. I too believe that simply beating a child only makes the kid worse.

However, how many times did you take a corner too fast while riding your bicycle before you learned how fast was safe? That skinned knee and bloody palm, which hurt, taught you a good lesson. Hopefully you weren't a daredevil and it only took once or twice, when you first started this NEW endevor (and kids learn how to deal with emotions with no guidebooks. things come up they've never felt before and right then and there, for the first time, they have to deal with it. think about that for a minute) for you to learn that certain physical actions on your part; ie going to fast on your bicycle around that corner, lead to certain physical reactions; ie falling down and getting hurt.

We DO learn from physical stimulation. It all depends on how and why it is applied. Said stimulation should not be applied often. Unless there is a defect in the child, there should be no need for it other than on a rare occasion.

I'll tell you an amusing thing, well amusing to me anyway.

When my kids were little, long ago it now seems, my son went through a phase where he was punching his sister. Generally it was on the shoulder but it was hard enough to hurt her. He's a couple years older and was a lot bigger than her at the time.

I warned him a few times that it needed to stop. There were a timeout or three and if I recall, and I may not be recalling correctly here, I even swatted him once or twice.

None of it worked.

One saturday morning he hit her pretty hard. Shes standing there in pain and he's standing there being a 6 year old smartass.

So I punched him in the shoulder. I tried to gage how hard he hit his sister, I too had been 6 at one time and so I figured I should have some angle on this, and hit him that hard.

His eyes got big and round, his mouth started to pucker up as it was painful, and I then said to him," hit your sister again and I'll hit you just the same as you do her."

He never hit her again.

As with almost all siblings they have had their ins and outs.

They are now excellent friends. They stick up for each other, joke with each other, friends and family, and are pretty decent people, pretty much how I hoped they would be.

Yes I have worked with problem kids.

And yes, people DO learn from pain/ physical punishment. The question is-- WHAT do they learn? Often the physical punishment will stop the behavior but it teaches other lessons that are not so good and it does not teach skills that replace hitting.

I think the mom has alot to do with that. My parents taught us at very young ages crap like that would not be tolerated.

I think that we need to remember that this family is reacting to the death of the boy's sister, the mother's daughter.
Our culture does not teach healthy responses to death; on the contrary, we hide it away.
I don't think that we can comment on the rightness or wrongness of spanking (a nice word for what is usually hitting out of anger and loss of control by someone much larger) in this situation, but perhaps comment on how tragic it is that these people are put into the television spotlight and the boy is turned into a monster, the mother turned into Frankenstein, because of a sound byte put out on the internet, and presumably due to not having help to deal with profound grief and loss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N4S

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kn18H3FKDV4

---

BEAT his A$$, thats why bad kids grow up to be BAD PEOPLE~!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by starmom

I think that we need to remember that this family is reacting to the death of the boy's sister, the mother's daughter.
Our culture does not teach healthy responses to death; on the contrary, we hide it away.
I don't think that we can comment on the rightness or wrongness of spanking (a nice word for what is usually hitting out of anger and loss of control by someone much larger) in this situation, but perhaps comment on how tragic it is that these people are put into the television spotlight and the boy is turned into a monster, the mother turned into Frankenstein, because of a sound byte put out on the internet, and presumably due to not having help to deal with profound grief and loss.

---

You are right-- I am sorry to have participated in derailing this topic. It's easy to have a visceral response to the video and then get carried away arguing about discipline and kids today, etc, etc. I think you are very correct about this family and I feel bad that their problems have been dragged into the media spotlight for criticism and second guessing...