Ethics of Hybrids

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

hmmm...I wonder if that would explain the "naked cowboy" phenomenon that was all the rage when I was down in NY last year....hmmm......

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That dude is still out there in his underwear strumming away daily!

yeah, my mom though he was good lookin, so i took a few pics of him for her.....I wasn't impressed as much though...If a guy has longer hair than me, not interested thanks.....I like my guys to have short hair.

i wouldnt personaly own a hybrid that couldnt possibly happen naturally ,natural hybrids im all for but snakes such as super balls for example just dont gel with me. but hey thats me
imo if people wants to own these snakes then it entirely upto them

Thanks for the re-direction JLC... a very well-behaved discussion going here. I think with the poll result that the ethical objectors are in the minority, so I'd like to redirect this thread a little (instead of starting a new one) and talk about hybrid projects to see what has been accomplished and educated guesses about what is possible and why. And if anyone would like to define 'species' in light of viable Superballs and the like I'd be very happy to see it!

My interests lie in the genetic possibilities and what viable hybrids can tell us about the genetics of the snakes (unless someone wants to fund a genome project?).

The Angolan Ball isn't that surprising... the parsimonious hypothesis of the recent geographical isolation of a shared ancestor that gave rise to these two species is quite plausible. Certainly the Superball is much more surprising on the evolutionary scale.

So here is what I know, please correct and add:
P.regiusxP.anchietae -> viable cross
P.regiusxP. curtus or breitensteini (both?) -> viable, breeds to both parents.
P.reticulatusxP.molurus bivittatus -> viable cross
...

I'm guessing the larger members of the Python genus will show more compatability, but there just isn't a lot of interest in producing a larger, faster growing burm with Afrock tendancies :)

Maybe someone more in the know will be able to tell us, but it it possible the different short-tails or bloods are actually sub-species instead of separate species? I don't really consider sub-species crosses that fantastic of a thing, that's why they're sub-species! Certainly they deserve distinction, and I too would like to know what line my snakes are from... but for this discussion they really aren't that important.

Thanks!

Interesting!

Here's a wee bit on curtus you might like reading (though I don't know if it would enlighten much on the current topic):

systematics and biogeography of commercially harvested pythons (Python curtus group) in Southeast Asia

Thanks for the link! That is an interesting paper, and certainly presents data for further discussion. Their particular slant on conservation and resource management to distinguish the three as separate species certainly biases the hybrid discussion concerning the three snakes (hadn't realized there were three of them!), but strengthens the call for a definition of species when discussing these snakes. Also, their presentation of the unweighted bootstrap values on the phylogenetic tree (getting over anyone's head yet?) might bias its topology. Anyone care to discuss?

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Originally Posted by Dread

Thanks for the link! That is an interesting paper, and certainly presents data for further discussion. Their particular slant on conservation and resource management to distinguish the three as separate species certainly biases the hybrid discussion concerning the three snakes (hadn't realized there were three of them!), but strengthens the call for a definition of species when discussing these snakes. Also, their presentation of the unweighted bootstrap values on the phylogenetic tree (getting over anyone's head yet?) might bias its topology. Anyone care to discuss?

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I could be wrong...but I think you and Mendel's Balls will get along REALLY well! You guys speak the same language! :P

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

How about ... "I don't care" :D

-adam

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Ditto.


Some are beautiful and the species of snake are close, and some are ugly and two TOTALY diffrent species. Examples...

Burm X Ball= Uh uh!! Not a good hybrid. Of coarse none have bien produced (thank goodness) but its bien tried.

Yellow Ananconda X Green Anaconda= GREAT COMBO!! Closly related ,beautiful. One i would like to see more of.

IMO,:D

Maybe it would have been a good idea to start a different thread...

I'm not so much interested in value judgements of what would make the prettiest hybrids, particularly if we're going to write-off some without ever seeing them.

While I may agree that attempting a ballxburm hybrid would be risky (and probably unsuccessful), I won't write off something just because it's (potentially) ugly in someone's opinion.

And yes, I'm actually living with a blood relative of Gregor Mendel right now and finished my first degree in Biochemistry. So I hope Mendel's Balls joins the convo soon!

Is this a burm x ball hybrid?

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...6/burmball.bmp