14 months since this guy ate....

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Originally Posted by wax32

:rolleye2: I looked at the vet list: not a single one in Louisiana, let alone New Orleans.

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If "I" were in New Orleans, I'd be contacting both Sean at Exotics By Nature and Tim Bailey and ask them what veterinarian THEY use! ;)

Good post!

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

Just want to make a few points here....

Metronidazole (Flagyl) is an antibiotic that also has anti-inflammatory effects in the GI tract. It also kills some flagellated parasites. It is not considered a GI irritant. Whether or not it actually stimulates appetite, I don't know, but it does get snakes eating again so who cares.

To the OP: offer your snake a small meal, as her body has adjusted to starvation mode and may not be able to handle a big meal.

Regarding what human docs do:
Comparing what human doctors do to what vets do is like apples and oranges. A huge difference in the fields being that MDs' patients can talk to them about what's going on -- MD's get a lot more information from that. Vets generally need to do a lot more tests to find out what is going on because patients can't tell us things like "it hurts when you poke there," "I have a headache," etc. Some animals, especially exotic animals, are very stoic and it's really hard to figure out how they are feeling.

Secondly, a hell of a lot more is known about human medicine than veterinary medicine. Even in well studied species, like horses, cows, and dogs, what we actually know is tiny compared to what we know about human medicine. What we know about reptiles is depressingly small.

Thirdly, human docs often do a poor-ass job working up their patients. A thorough physical exam is rarely done, and the database collected on patients is pathetic. And guess what, lots of stuff gets missed because of it.

Fourth, vet medicine is paid for out of pocket, and a lot of vets' hands are tied by what the client is willing to pay for. Standard of care often can't be afforded (or the client just isn't willing to cough up the dough for the health of his pet), and so the vet does the best they can with the situation they are given.

My point is, the way MDs and the way DVMs practice medicine is totally different for many reasons. And the way dogs & cats are treated is totally different than how reptiles are treated. Ideally, we'd do aerobic, anaerobic, fungal, and viral testing for all RI's presented, but rarely do clients want to pay for that. So we put the snake on antibiotics and hope the client follows our instructions to prevent resistant bugs, and hope that the critter gets better.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

If "I" were in New Orleans, I'd be contacting both Sean at Exotics By Nature and Tim Bailey and ask them what veterinarian THEY use! ;)

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I don't know Sean, but I do plan to get in touch with Tim next week and ask him if he doesn't eat.

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Originally Posted by wax32

:rolleye2: I looked at the vet list: not a single one in Louisiana

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Call LSU vet school if you need a good exotics vet in southeast LA.

I take my animals to noone else. They are the best around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wax32

I don't know Sean, but I do plan to get in touch with Tim next week and ask him if he doesn't eat.

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You don't really have to "know" Sean to inquire what vet he uses. When I was looking for an exotics vet around me, I contacted my local herp society and the Atlanta Zoo Reptile department for their recommendations.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Call LSU vet school if you need a good exotics vet in southeast LA.

I take my animals to noone else. They are the best around.

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Daniel is in LA, sounds like good advice!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

Just want to make a few points here....

Metronidazole (Flagyl) is an antibiotic that also has anti-inflammatory effects in the GI tract. It also kills some flagellated parasites. It is not considered a GI irritant. Whether or not it actually stimulates appetite, I don't know, but it does get snakes eating again so who cares.

To the OP: offer your snake a small meal, as her body has adjusted to starvation mode and may not be able to handle a big meal.

Regarding what human docs do:
Comparing what human doctors do to what vets do is like apples and oranges. A huge difference in the fields being that MDs' patients can talk to them about what's going on -- MD's get a lot more information from that. Vets generally need to do a lot more tests to find out what is going on because patients can't tell us things like "it hurts when you poke there," "I have a headache," etc. Some animals, especially exotic animals, are very stoic and it's really hard to figure out how they are feeling.

Secondly, a hell of a lot more is known about human medicine than veterinary medicine. Even in well studied species, like horses, cows, and dogs, what we actually know is tiny compared to what we know about human medicine. What we know about reptiles is depressingly small.

Thirdly, human docs often do a poor-ass job working up their patients. A thorough physical exam is rarely done, and the database collected on patients is pathetic. And guess what, lots of stuff gets missed because of it.

Fourth, vet medicine is paid for out of pocket, and a lot of vets' hands are tied by what the client is willing to pay for. Standard of care often can't be afforded (or the client just isn't willing to cough up the dough for the health of his pet), and so the vet does the best they can with the situation they are given.

My point is, the way MDs and the way DVMs practice medicine is totally different for many reasons. And the way dogs & cats are treated is totally different than how reptiles are treated. Ideally, we'd do aerobic, anaerobic, fungal, and viral testing for all RI's presented, but rarely do clients want to pay for that. So we put the snake on antibiotics and hope the client follows our instructions to prevent resistant bugs, and hope that the critter gets better.

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Big Gunns has been waiting for you on this thread CV...what took you so long?:D

BG did mean to point out the fact that a animal can't tell the Vet what's bothering it, but the Vet can talk to the owner and get a lot of helpful info that can help with a diagnosis.

Big Gunns isn't disagreeing with CV and WWP completely. In a perfect world all the tests would be done to be 100% sure you give the right meds. We don't live in a perfect world though. Like CV said....money is always an issue with reptiles. People are reluctant to spend a lot of money on a $40 snake that could care less who feeds it.

It would be very easy to say on all threads like this what the politically correct answer is. Take your snake to the Vet and get expensive tests to determine what's wrong with it. Better advice in BG's opinion is to take it to a qualified and experienced Vet. This Vet is gonna be able to help you without "taking you to the cleaners". The experienced Vet is gonna be able to tell if all the tests are needed. They may be needed soon, but not now, since it appears healthy and has not lost much weight.

BG does understand that he is not the normal reptile keeper also. Big Gunns is gonna be a lot more helpful in diagnosing what's wrong with the snake. In this particular case, with this snake, BG thinks that Flagyl and few feeding tricks should work. Unfortunately it is the worst time of the year to get a snake to eat. It may need to be assist fed a small meal. The Flagyl is not gonna hurt anything though.

Let BG point something out also. The Vet that the OP took this snake to doesn't seem to know much of anything. The OP told the Vet about Flagyl. If we(the posters on this thread) said nothing about Flagyl, this snake may have got some cough medicine and a vaporizer.:taz:

To wrap this all up. WWP and CV are right....technically....but BG is right also....and BG is more important.:P:D If someone takes their 40 dollar snake to the Vet and gets a $400 bill, BG can guarantee that the next time they have a problem, that snake isn't going to the Vet. It's unfortunate, but true. CV seems to know this all too well. If you take your snake to an experienced Vet, this Vet should be able to tell if you need a bunch of expensive tests on the first visit. BG doesn't think the Vet is "shotgunning" meds either. It's just experience. Doing expensive tests with every snake that has an issue is not practical, although BG does agree with CV and WWP. In a perfect world...it is the best thing to do.

In other words. Take the snake to an experienced Vet and you don't need advice from us or anyone. Just trust them to take care of your animal. If they say you need tests, get them. If they don't, trust them that they know what they're doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

If "I" were in New Orleans, I'd be contacting both Sean at Exotics By Nature and Tim Bailey and ask them what veterinarian THEY use! ;)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by wax32

I don't know Sean, but I do plan to get in touch with Tim next week and ask him if he doesn't eat.

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Call leeetle Sean and tell him Big Gunns said he better tell you what Vet to go to and pay for it also.:D:D

ps. It's not that easy to talk in the third person and give advice that people will listen to.

Well I hope everything works out for the snake, and I was thinking the same thing BG mentioned, Is the worse time of the year to get the snake to eat. Why didnt you worry more 3 months ago. :P

Out of all this, I think is a good Idea to make a sticky under this section of the forum (BP Husbandry) with a list of good Snake/Critter Vets that people have already use them under each major city in each county.

Example:
Broward - Fort Lauderdale, FL. (Or something like this... Is late and I cant sleep dont make me think to much :taz:)


EDIT: BLEH I meant to post this under the other thread "be loyal to your snake..." but I guess it works out in here too... =)

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Big Gunns has been waiting for you on this thread CV...what took you so long?:D

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Oh, just busy saving lives and taking people to the cleaners. :P

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

Oh, just busy saving lives and taking people to the cleaners. :P

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It's the horror stories Big Gunns has heard that made him make that comment. The expensive bill for a scale outta place and a spider web in the cage.:D