Wiggles, the Children's Python

Maybe he used them sooner when you weren't looking? But I'm glad you finally caught him in the act- :)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Maybe he used them sooner when you weren't looking? But I'm glad you finally caught him in the act- :)

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Yeah, without lights it's tough to see what goes on in the back of the enclosure, let alone, what goes on at night when I'm asleep. Soon, I'm going to get a security camera to spy on him at night. I'm really looking forward to that.

Another reason I think I don't see him use them more is that he doesn't need to. He only has 14.5" of height in the upper terrarium, so he doesn't need much help to climb up. He could probably periscope directly into his sky hide. One day, when I have more room, I'll build him an enclosure with more space to climb.

I finally got a camera for Wiggles's enclosure.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/ivkhIEz.jpeg

I'm hoping that it will help me learn how he uses his enclosure. Does he prefer the warm or cool side? The tub or the terrarium? Which furniture does he prefer? Under what circumstances? With this information, I can modify his enclosure to better suit his needs.

Of course, I can't get the camera to work though. That would just be too easy. I've managed to modify the mount so I can attach it to the pegboard, but the motion detector isn't sensitive enough to pick up on Wiggles's movement. I fear that it's not designed to pick up movement so close to the camera. I'll try moving it outside the enclosure. If that doesn't work, I might have to try reading the user manual. Hopefully, it won't come to that.

Oh NO! NOT the Users Manual! :D I hope you get this to work though, I think it's a great idea to see what he's up to when you're not looking, for the reasons you gave. :gj: I hope the reason it won't pick up the motion is not due to the smooth way that snakes have of moving.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

According to Serpwidgets, Wiggles shrank 0.08 inches last quarter. On 10/4/23, he measured 2', 11.53". Tonight, he measured 2', 11.45".
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/4MmVSUf.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/ktR6dY8.jpg
While I'm a Serpwidgets booster, even I wouldn't say it's accurate to within a tenth of an inch. So, I'm going to conclude that the change in Wiggles's length this quarter was negligible. He's still under 3 feet.

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I never heard of this site before now.
it's pretty awesome!

according to that, Ragnar is a hair under 2 foot.

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

I never heard of this site before now.
it's pretty awesome!

according to that, Ragnar is a hair under 2 foot.

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Measuring a snake's length is notoriously difficult. This is the best tool I've found. I hope you have fun with it. At 2 feet, Ragnar's got a lot of growing left to do.

Hoorah! The camera has a time lapse feature that works great.

https://youtu.be/Kycl0W7ouis

Took pictures at 30 second intervals from 9:18 PM last night to 5:17 AM this morning. What did I learn? Wiggles spent 3 hours on his ledge, ducked into his tub for 10 minutes, and returned to his sky hide for the rest of the night (5 hours). The whole video is only a minute long, and only took up 100 MB out of 64 G of memory. I'm so excited about all that I can learn.

That's outstanding! :gj:

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Originally Posted by Homebody

At 2 feet, Ragnar's got a lot of growing left to do.

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I hope so.

I got him in march from a Pet Store.
not sure how old he was when I got him, but assuming relatively young.

That's pretty cool. :)

Would you share a link or details on the camera you're using, in case someone considers buying one? Asking for a friend, of course...

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Would you share a link or details on the camera you're using, in case someone considers buying one? Asking for a friend, of course...

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Mine's an Argus Eco Pro. I chose it because it's battery powered, stores data on an SD card in the camera, and I could manage it on my PC. There are a lot of very good options that are both smaller and cheaper, but they require you to manage them via an app on your smart phone. I don't have a smart phone.

The camera has been really helping me to get to know Wiggles better. I've never seen Wiggles so much as sip from his water bowl, but the camera caught him taking a dip. Actually, two dips. They were quick, not proper soaking, but it's still significant behavior.

https://i.imgur.com/CaXvafj_d.webp?m...fidelity=grand
One of the reasons that I use a large water bowl is so that he can soak if he wants, but after two years of never seeing him soak, I had started putting less water in the bowl. I didn't see the point. I, even, considered replacing it with a small bowl to free up space. Now that I've seen him using it for it's intended purpose, I'll keep it filled.

When he's in the terrarium, he splits his time between his sky hide and his ledge. No surprises there. I did see him use his wedge hide a couple times, either in or on it, and that did surprise me. When he's in the terrarium, he will periodically roam the enclosure for 30 to 60 minutes, once or twice a night. He's spent very little time basking, though he also hasn't eaten. He also spends a lot of time in the tub. Last week, I would have said he favors the terrarium. This week has been almost all tub.

Before I got the camera, my observations were limited to the evenings, and by my attention span. So, my observations were very limited indeed. Now, I'm able to observe his behavior for 16 hours a day. This will allow me to get to know Wiggles on a level that just wouldn't have been possible before.

Now, I don't want to oversell the value of the camera. I don't expect to see novel behavior very often. There is only so much Wiggles can do in his enclosure. What I hope is that I can develop a deeper understanding of why he does what he does. Even (dare I hope) be able to predict his behavior. If I could do that, that would be something.

Wiggles weighed in at 287g last night, 10g less than last quarter. I'm not too concerned about it. I recall that his last weigh in didn't go well. So, I put an asterisk next to the measurement to indicate that I didn't have a lot of confidence in it. He hasn't eaten in 6 weeks, though. So, I suppose he could have dropped some weight, but I don't think he'd drop 10g that quickly.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/oZFCyDL.jpeg
His length measurement this quarter has a bit of an asterisk next to it as well. I couldn't get a nice shot of him straightened out next to the ruler. Serpwidgits does a pretty good job accounting for curves, but this time I feel the straight measurement is more accurate. So, that's the measurement I'm going with.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/RuzDG5N.jpeg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/8YxxeHf.jpeg

Three feet, finally, after flirting with it for so long.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/27AUWZR.jpeg

What's up with him not eating for 6 weeks? In shed?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

What's up with him not eating for 6 weeks? In shed?

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Partially. I was experimenting with a random feeding schedule in an attempt to better replicate conditions in the wild. As happens when things are random, two feeding fell a week apart and this just so happened to be a week he was in shed. Now, you'd think, after missing the two previous feedings, that I'd have no trouble feeding him the next time around. No dice. He wasn't having it. He did eat last night so his brief fast is over.

One of the reasons I experimented with the random feeding schedule is that he's not an enthusiastic feeder. It's probably the reptilinks. Either the scent doesn't provoke a strong feeding response, or perhaps the larger links I switched to last year are too much. I'll probably switch back to the smaller links with my next order.

I agree...that ^ ^ ^ explains a lot. Reptilinks etc. etc.

I tried Reptilinks with about a dozen snakes, and only one of them would eat them more than once. Some of my rosy boas that would eat your shoe took one but refused to repeat the trick in subsequent offerings.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I tried Reptilinks with about a dozen snakes, and only one of them would eat them more than once. Some of my rosy boas that would eat your shoe took one but refused to repeat the trick in subsequent offerings.

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That surprises me because I know you keep king snakes and I thought king snakes would eat anything.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

That surprises me because I know you keep king snakes and I thought king snakes would eat anything.

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I keep mountain kingsnakes -- Lampropeltis knoblochi, specifically. The mountain kings are naturally lizard feeders, though they'll wean onto rodents with some work. They can be reliable feeders but are virtually never 'foody' (I've never heard of one). You're probably thinking of the snakes in the former L. getula complex, such as the California king, which have a reputation for being very food driven. Those I have not kept, as they don't sound very fun. :)

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

You're probably thinking of the snakes in the former L. getula complex, such as the California king, which have a reputation for being very food driven.

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I was thinking that all king snakes are the same. You learn something new every day.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I was thinking that all king snakes are the same. You learn something new every day.

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I've known my share of the "foody" king snakes (speckled, California kings, desert kings, Mexican black kings, etc.) but not mountain kings. As usual, Malum Argenteum is spot on. :cool:

I think it is really interesting to contemplate (and experience) the differences between taxa. There are the broad groups that we can make broad generalized comparisons between, such as the kings and mountain kings; another example is the different groups of boas: US natives vs the other terrestrial boas vs the arboreal boas. Another example is probably (I've kept none of these) the Australian pythons and the Asian pythons.

There stark differences even within a genus -- differences within Python, or within Lampropeltis, are vivid examples. Even between closely related species there are differences. The two rosy boa species (Lichanura trivirgata and L orcutti) are different in size and behavior/temperament, and even within L. orcutti there are those differences between the coastal and high desert locales. Outside of snakes, I think of Coelonyx (banded geckos) for intergeneric differences -- some species are rainforest dwellers, some in pretty harsh desert, and there are empirically established differences in physiology (preferred body temp; especially rate of evaporation).

This is one of the main reasons I like to keep a really broad range of herps -- to see how wildly different they all are, even in close relatives. Super interesting stuff. :)

Is my boy overweight?

https://i.imgur.com/iC4lKkE.jpeg

I noticed that his body narrows suddenly at the tail.

https://i.imgur.com/9dzNZbu.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/TFLhw9c.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/Hlv5DZD.jpeg

He's well-nourished but I wouldn't necessarily say "overweight". Are you sure it's a male?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

He's well-nourished but I wouldn't necessarily say "overweight". Are you sure it's a male?

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That was the seller's representation. Why do you ask?

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Originally Posted by Homebody

That was the seller's representation. Why do you ask?

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Just a thought- I've never sexed any Children's pythons, but I have sexed other kinds of snakes. Just not seeing a pronounced hemipenal bulge below his cloaca- his tail looks more female to me, or at least in those photos. Females sometimes have "hips" like that. Plus there's no females (same species & size) to compare his tail length to, so I just wondered. Mistakes happen, especially in young squirmy snakes being sexed. And appearance is not the most reliable way to sex snakes anyway. Don't let it keep you awake nights. ;) Besides, the name Wiggles can go either way. :D

I'll keep it mind. Glad to hear he's not overweight yet. Though, I still plan to switch back to smaller Reptilinks with my next order due to his recent inconsistent feeding.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/9dzNZbu.jpeg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/TFLhw9c.jpeg

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What a stark color difference! My boy (or girl) looks very different depending on the light.

Also, a funny thing happened last night. When I went to put him back in his enclosure, he wouldn't let go of my hand. Usually, he's eager to escape my grasp, but not last night. At first, I thought he was holding on because he was afraid of falling. So, I rested my hand on the floor of his enclosure and waited for him to let go, but he wouldn't do it. Then, I thought, maybe he's just not ready to go back. Maybe, he's starting to enjoy handling a bit, but then, I noticed that he was holding on awful tight. Suddenly, it dawned on me that that he was constricting me, and that he wouldn't let go until my heart stopped beating. So, I peeled him off as gently as I could. Silly snek. Won't eat his reptilinks, but, my hand, that he'll eat.

So glad you didn't wait for your heart to stop beating- Good call! :rofl: What a little predator! Can't blame him for preferring fresh over Reptilinks- I guess he thought you were "offering"?

I've offered Reptilinks to snakes that continued to prefer my arm (hand, sweatshirt, snake hook...) over the links. Not kidding.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I've offered Reptilinks to snakes that continued to prefer my arm (hand, sweatshirt, snake hook...) over the links. Not kidding.

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I wouldn't argue with anyone that said that snakes don't like reptilinks. Children's pythons are as food motivated as they come, yet getting Wiggles to eat them requires some persuasion. That said, he has been eating them for nearly two years, so I'm going to order another batch under the theory that it's my overfeeding and not the links themselves that's the problem. Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

So glad you didn't wait for your heart to stop beating- Good call! :rofl: What a little predator! Can't blame him for preferring fresh over Reptilinks- I guess he thought you were "offering"?

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It just occurred to me that I was handling him with my bare hands. I've been handling him with gloves to keep him from biting. It's been working so great that, last night, I decided to try handling him bare handed. Oh, well. At least, he didn't bite.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

It just occurred to me that I was handling him with my bare hands. I've been handling him with gloves to keep him from biting. It's been working so great that, last night, I decided to try handling him bare handed. Oh, well. At least, he didn't bite.

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Yeah, being gloveless must have confused him. :rofl: He wasn't taking any chances that this prey was going to get away!

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yeah, being gloveless must have confused him. :rofl: He wasn't taking any chances that this prey was going to get away!

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This incident demonstrates well one of the reasons that Children's pythons make such great pets. As, Wiggles was doing his level best to crush me to death, he only managed to be amusing. That's an important benefit of keeping the second smallest python in the world. They can't hurt you. To illustrate just how small they are, I decided to use Lord Sorril's trick of adding a quarter for scale.

https://i.imgur.com/M92DI1Q.jpeg

Imagine how small their teeth must be. I've only taken a feeding bite from him once, and, even when he working his jaws trying to pull me into his mouth, it was never more than mildly irritating. Now, Childrens may be more prone to biting than some other snakes, but you'd be hard pressed to find one that does less damage when it does.

I totally agree, judging from your experience with Wiggles & mine with my very similar spotted python. They are both EXCELLENT pets that stay a safe & pleasantly manageable size, with plenty of personality & skills to never be boring snakes.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I really like these tubes. I collect them from the recycling bins in the commercial district. They're really thick, like wood. To this one I added dowel rods to make climbing through it more dynamic.
[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/fFAxZxk.jpg[/IMG]
Now, I wait to see whether he likes them.

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It's been a long wait, but here is a picture of Wiggles using this tube.
https://i.imgur.com/8cMOKRl.jpeg
Wiggles enters the tube at the lower end and exits at the top. I was considering removing some of the rods to make it easier for him to get through. I had seen him using the tubes without rods. I'm glad I didn't. The whole point, really, was to give him a piece of furniture that requires him to move his body in a different way. Snake's bodies are designed to move through tight spaces. This piece allows him to do that. I'm, now, considering adding dowel rods to his hides so that he has to squeeze into those.

Good idea...an "agility course" for snakes, :D I like the idea of using dowels- I'm sure he does too- something to grab onto. That might be more than needed though- they look pretty close together?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Good idea...an "agility course" for snakes, :D I like the idea of using dowels- I'm sure he does too- something to grab onto. That might be more than needed though- they look pretty close together?

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They are an inch apart. The perspective of the picture makes them appear closer together than they really are. That said, when I add dowel rods to his other tubes, I won't add as many, just enough to make it easier for him to wiggle through. I'll keep this tube the way it is to be more of a challenge.

Wiggles measured 36.75 inches this quarter.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/knKthkI.jpeg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/JWwDqAW.jpeg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/RX1ZVor.jpeg

That's almost 3/4 inch more than last quarter. That's really surprising. Wiggles only grew a half inch in the previous three quarters combined. His last measurement 3 months ago had him just over three feet, but I wasn't sure that I could rely on that. Serpwidgets is pretty accurate, when done correctly, the most accurate way of measuring length that I know, but it's still wise to take a second measurement to be sure. This measurement confirms that Wiggles has definitely passed the three foot mark, and shows that he may have more growing to do. The Complete Children's Python says they can get to over three and a half feet.

I'll try to get an updated weight for him at his next feeding. I tried to record his weight at his last feeding, but the reptilink I offered failed to motivate him to climb onto the scale. At least he ate it. I may try a hopper next time to see if he finds that more motivating.

Wiggles weighed in at a hefty 312g. A substantial weight increase to go along with his substantial length increase.

https://i.imgur.com/tGJF6dJ.jpeg

The Reptilink I offered him yesterday failed to persuade him to cooperate. He actually ran from it. So, tonight I tried using a mouse. That did the trick. Lured him all the way out of his enclosure and onto my scale. So, it's clear he prefers to eat mice. I prefer to feed Reptilinks. The battle of wills has begun.

Good luck with the battle. :D

Wiggles's new favorite hide is behind the pegboard.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/J7GyaWs.jpeg

Honestly, I don't know why I bother giving him hides. He's just going to make his own anyway.

I crushed (or pinched) Wiggles last night. I'm not sure if he was injured. He's been acting normally.

Here's how it happened. Wiggles's enclosure is divided horizontally by a pvc board with a hole in it. The hole allows him to move between the top and bottom.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/sb2gx85.jpeg

Unfortunately, this hole is a safety hazard. When I pull out the tub, the hole closes. If Wiggles is in the whole at the time he'll get crushed.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/5ScQmwV.jpeg

To guard against that, I made a brake that fits into the hole and stops the tub from moving. In order to open the tub, I have to remove the brake first. Until last night, it's worked fine.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/Re0AF60.jpeg

I guess, when I moved the brake, Wiggles came up from the tub to investigate the movement. Unfortunately, I didn't notice. I tried to open the tub but I couldn't. I looked to see if I had removed the brake, and I saw that I had. Then, I heard him thrashing. Horrified, I shoved the tub back into place.

After I made sure that he wasn't in the hole, I opened the tub again to check on him. I saw him disappear into one of his hides. I decided to leave him alone for a couple hours to settle down.

When I checked back, he poked his head out of his hide flicking his tongue as normal. I took that as a good sign. To reassure myself further, I decided to try and feed him. He ate normally.

So, hopefully, Wiggles wasn't injured. I'll keep a close eye on him. If I see any unusual behavior, I'll take him to the vet.

Unfortunately, that's one of the downsides of sliding tubs in general -- that they need to move when the keeper does not have the occupant fully in view. (Full disclosure -- I use a lot of tubs.)

Your brake is a brilliant idea, though snakes can be masters at outsmarting keepers' attempts to keep them safe.

Just a close call with no harm done, I hope?

Normal tongue flicks and eating probably mean he’s fine.

Snakes are tough. They have to be. He won’t hold it against you either.

I imagine you feel terrible. However, stuff happens. Try not to sweat it. You can only move forward and he’s likely fine.

Please keep us posted.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Normal tongue flicks and eating probably mean he’s fine.

Snakes are tough. They have to be. He won’t hold it against you either.

I imagine you feel terrible. However, stuff happens. Try not to sweat it. You can only move forward and he’s likely fine.

Please keep us posted.

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You're right that I feel terrible. So, I appreciate everyone's encouraging comments. Lesson learned. Hopefully, it'll make me a better keeper.

I was surprised to see him acting normally; shocked to see him eat. To my mind, his escaping injury didn't seem possible. They really are extraordinary creatures.

Right now, he's curled up in his hide digesting. It may be a few days before I get a good chance to examine him. I'll report back then.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I wasn't sure that I could rely on that. Serpwidgets is pretty accurate,

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anybody know another website like this to get a somewhat accurate length measurement?
Serpwidgets apparently no longer exists.

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

anybody know another website like this to get a somewhat accurate length measurement?
Serpwidgets apparently no longer exists.

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R.I.P. Serpwidgets :(.

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

anybody know another website like this to get a somewhat accurate length measurement?
Serpwidgets apparently no longer exists.

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Assuming nobody posts an alternative before then, I'll make something like it if I have time this weekend or next. I've been meaning to measure my snakes.