WC Gravids?

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Originally Posted by nixer

this post is so unfounded and the link is utter crap if you read it they rounded up every cat on the island this by now means compares to that.

as for hunting every person who hunts my farm limits out every year LEGALLY and the last day of the season i saw another 30+ deer going to my place. and these animals will do just what your article says they would strip the land and make all other animals die off! if you wanna spend more time worrying about something perhaps you should worry more about deforestation world wide.

also then if all that goes together why dont we stop feeding other nations! let them starve also its not our fault they overpopulated

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I wonder if you ever wondered if the rabbits themselves were native to that island....

I for one refuse to make a blanket statement about flippers. There are good and bad flippers just like there are good and bad breeders. I have seen many breeders selling sickly animals that are in terrible health and I have seen many flippers that take outstanding care of the animals they have while they are in their possession. So it really aint a matter of flipper or breeder, but rather a matter of whether the individual person is taking proper care of the animals in their care or not.

So with that being said, any flipper who takes proper care of the animals they are selling, and does not ever sell sickly animals then I dont have a problem with them. How can any of us in this day and age have a problem with anyone who is out there trying to make an honest living?

Now if you are knowingly selling sickly animals, then you need to be taken out behind the show and have the boots put to you in my humble opinion. Breeder or flipper alike.

With all that being said, I dont deal in WC/CH and I dont resell other people's animals. I also look to buy from small and medium breeders. I think they deserve to be rewarded for the hard work they have put in and more often than not my $250-$2500 to a small guy might mean the difference in being able to make the mortgage payment that month. Where as with the long established big guys that $250-$2500 is just more icing on their cake.

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Originally Posted by Shrap

I for one refuse to make a blanket statement about flippers. There are good and bad flippers just like there are good and bad breeders. I have seen many breeders selling sickly animals that are in terrible health and I have seen many flippers that take outstanding care of the animals they have while they are in their possession. So it really aint a matter of flipper or breeder, but rather a matter of whether the individual person is taking proper care of the animals in their care or not.

So with that being said, any flipper who takes proper care of the animals they are selling, and does not ever sell sickly animals then I dont have a problem with them. How can any of us in this day and age have a problem with anyone who is out there trying to make an honest living?

Now if you are knowingly selling sickly animals, then you need to be taken out behind the show and have the boots put to you in my humble opinion. Breeder or flipper alike.

With all that being said, I dont deal in WC/CH and I dont resell other people's animals. I also look to buy from small and medium breeders. I think they deserve to be rewarded for the hard work they have put in and more often than not my $250-$2500 to a small guy might mean the difference in being able to make the mortgage payment that month. Where as with the long established big guys that $250-$2500 is just more icing on their cake.

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this post hits the nail on the head!

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I wonder if you ever wondered if the rabbits themselves were native to that island....

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they probally were not

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I wonder if the conflict in the native habitat of leopard geckos might have something to do with their not being imported at the moment.

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What does the reason they are not imported have to do with anything? The fact that they are not imported yet there are more than enough to satisfy the demand says it all. With the tremendous amount of Ball Pythons already in this country there is no reason to continue to import more than a few hundred or so a year, if that. Oh by the way, every Leopard Gecko I have ever bought was purchased directly form the breeder that produced it.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

IF you don't want imports being sent in that's fine, don't buy them. Make loud noises and snub those who do. Make blanket statements that you won't buy from people who deal in imports whether they be gravid or not.

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I wont buy them, I do make loud noises and snub those that do, and I personally do not do business with anyone that deals in imports.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Of course, unless you're a hypocritical sack of crap, you KNOW that the snakes YOU have came from imports and/or gravid females. How come it's OK for YOU to have them but not the next wave of regius keepers? You've got yours so screw the newbs eh? Very cool of you.

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Unless of course YOU are an absolute idiot that thinks every Ball python that has been sold in the last five years was imported YOU would know that a lot of incredible breeders have been producing Morphs and cool looking normals to sell. Every Ball Python in my collection was bought from one of those breeders and will continue to be. As far as the next wave of regius and Newbs go, they have multi trait morphs available to them that I could only dream about at prices that are incredibly less than I paid for my one trait Morphs. The main reason they are so much cheaper of course is mostly the fault of Flippers and the other Market crashers out there.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

And flippers, yes we're terrible. I say we because I buy and flip maybe a dozen or so balls every year. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I suppose guys buying corns by the hundred lot and garters by the thousand and flipping them are better somehow but I can't figure out how.

I do a lot of west coast shows and have NEVER been to one that was totally CBB no matter what the advertisements say. LLL, reptile depot, and a couple of other guys are ALWAYS there and they are FLIPPERS, importers, and I, personally, do NO business with them because of the WAY they treat their animals not their origins. Of course customer service also plays a part in my not doing business with them, but that is another issue.

If my choice were to feed my family by selling a legally collected animal or having them starve, you can bet your bottom dollar I'd be catching snakes.

Some of you have presented well thought out points of view, somewhat narrow perhaps, but the thought is evident.

Some of you are fence posts looking for cement.

Before you condemn someone for doing what you say you would not, be sure the origins of your animals do not violate your standards, or, supposed standards, the ones you proclaim in public.

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Don’t worry I will not be buying anything from you or any of those other companies you just listed.:gj:

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Originally Posted by nixer

they probally were not

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Does the fact that the rabbits as well as the cats are non-native make you have any other thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Albey

Don’t worry I will not be buying anything from you or any of those other companies you just listed.:gj:

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Another way of saying "I believe everything you say, I agree with you, but I don't like you enough to out and out say so because others who don't like you might think I'm like you and I'm not, even though I agree with you and think you are correct."

I'm cool with that. You're hardly the first.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Another way of saying "I believe everything you say, I agree with you, but I don't like you enough to out and out say so because others who don't like you might think I'm like you and I'm not, even though I agree with you and think you are correct."

I'm cool with that. You're hardly the first.

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Well you know I love you, Wes!! And you know my love is true, because I still love you whether we agree or not.

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Originally Posted by Albey

The main reason they are so much cheaper of course is mostly the fault of Flippers and the other Market crashers out there.

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so you dont think supply and demand and the economy has anything to do with it at all? i think if it came between me and my family needs and buying snakes i think imma go with the family.

also note that lets say we had 100million ppl how many ppl out of that like lessers maybe 1/3 well once those 1/3 get lessers and breed them now we have lots of lessers that the other 2/3 doesnt want. at that point what choices do you have?

personally i think that not all the flippers are bad. some dont care for their animals properly. also how many snakes in some large collections have been forgot about! ive heard stories from many different ppl about pretty much every big breeder out there and some of those stories are to similar to not be true! just as much ive heard so many lies.

also why is it that we have to have all these personal attacks just during a discussion?

and no wes my thoughts on that were perhaps they shouldnt be starting backfires!

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Originally Posted by nixer

and no wes my thoughts on that were perhaps they shouldnt be starting backfires!

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At least you're thinking.

Ponder this though: what if no cats or rabbits had been introduced to that island?