Derma balls

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

That is because I am not Arguing

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:rofl:

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this thing isnt even genetic so it does not even matter!

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It almost certainly *is* genetic (what, you think it's environmental?). Genetics are very often more complicated than simple dominance and recessive mendelian scenarios. Just because we haven't learned *how* it is genetic, doesn't mean it's not genetic. :P

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Why would you want a less than perfect bp? Because you think its pretty? :rolleyes:

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*i* never said i wanted this particular morph, for the record. I was simply pointing out that it was not really any different from hairless mammals and therefore not really deserving of all the cynicism it's getting.

Why would I want a less than perfect BP? Well, why do any of us like the morphs we have? Albinos don't tend to survive very long because their bright colors make them an easily spotted snack. I guess no one should have albinos, and "because we think they're pretty" is some kind of stupid reason according to you? Why would you have *any* morph if looks are of no importance to you?

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im saying why would you want to encourage breeding a snake that could have complications?

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I'm going to let this go now. I feel like your arguments (yes, they are arguments) show a propensity on your part to say things without really thinking about them, and so i guess "your" right when you say i'm "waisting" my time (spelling snobbery there - i can't help it).

Thanks, wasting, got it... Your wasting you time typing. your right, its just like an albino? They are a natural accurence, and just about every species has one.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Thanks, wasting, got it. your right, its just like an albino? They are a natural accurence, and just about every species has one.

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See above comment about how you don't think about what you say before you say it, and how i'm done arguing this with you.

:gj:

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Originally Posted by Morphie

See above comment about how you don't think about what you say before you say it, and how i'm done arguing this with you.

:gj:

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ok...

I'm seeing so many rumors being repeated as facts here, it's getting kinda crazy.

A) Yes, the Derma-ball has heat pits. You cannot see them, because normally a specially shaped scaled covers that area, one that allows the skin to be exposed inside--the scale is missing, so you just see the skin instead, which is mostly smooth. LOOK CLOSELY. The snake also uses its heat pits and eats normally. Heat pits are not like nasal passages, there are no holes going back into the snake's face--it's an area of very sensitive nerves covered by skin, that's all.

B) There has not been enough time to prove whether the Derma-ball can be reproduced. It has been an unsuccessful breeder! That doesn't mean it is not genetic, it means the snake is young and hasn't produced any offspring yet. It's so young, there's not even any reason to suspect that it can't. Once it does, you STILL HAVE TO WAIT 3 YEARS to find out whether it's a recessive gene, let alone something more complex than that. Logically speaking, it's going to be the same gene that produces scalelessness in rat snakes.
If so, then it's a recessive gene, and we'll have a wait to see more of them.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

How many wobbling/spinning spiders have you produced from non wobbling/spinning parents? It is also true that when a spider is mixed the wobble/ spin is Diluted, and seeing that I will not produce any normal spiders that are already coming from a non wobbling/spinning stock I do not see a problem.

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This is a very alarming post for me. Where did your information come from. I have produced many Spiders over the last three years, and they all came from my original Spider. I have never detected any spinning or wobbles from him. However, I have produced animals that have slight wobbles, and even produced a Spider that appeared to be normal, until he was about 6 months old. At that age, he had already been sold, and he began to spin like a helicopter. So, thinking that your non-spinning Spider is only going to produce non-spinning offspring is definitely a misconception.

I also wonder where you heard about this "dilution" of the Spider wobble when they animal is crossed. I can tell you that one of the Spinners that I produced this year gets the shakes when a prey item appears in her tub. I also can tell you that my HoneyBee male shakes his head almost everytime you open his tub. Lastly, my BumbleBee female does the same as my Spinner female, and wobbles when a prey item is present. My male Spinner and my male BumbleBee do not show these signs. So with all of that siad, I would not say that outcrossing or "mixing" of the Spider gene does not appear to affect the potential problem with Spiders. I still love all of my Spiders and crosses, and would never stop working with the project for any reason. Spiders also happen to appear to be one of the most inquisitive of Ball python morphs in my collection.

I hope I was able to shed some light on the current discussions,

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Originally Posted by muddoc

This is a very alarming post for me. Where did your information come from. I have produced many Spiders over the last three years, and they all came from my original Spider. I have never detected any spinning or wobbles from him. However, I have produced animals that have slight wobbles, and even produced a Spider that appeared to be normal, until he was about 6 months old. At that age, he had already been sold, and he began to spin like a helicopter. So, thinking that your non-spinning Spider is only going to produce non-spinning offspring is definitely a misconception.

I also wonder where you heard about this "dilution" of the Spider wobble when they animal is crossed. I can tell you that one of the Spinners that I produced this year gets the shakes when a prey item appears in her tub. I also can tell you that my HoneyBee male shakes his head almost everytime you open his tub. Lastly, my BumbleBee female does the same as my Spinner female, and wobbles when a prey item is present. My male Spinner and my male BumbleBee do not show these signs. So with all of that siad, I would not say that outcrossing or "mixing" of the Spider gene does not appear to affect the potential problem with Spiders. I still love all of my Spiders and crosses, and would never stop working with the project for any reason. Spiders also happen to appear to be one of the most inquisitive of Ball python morphs in my collection.

I hope I was able to shed some light on the current discussions,

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Ive read it a few times in posts, but this proves me wrong! Maybe someone will come in a chime in on the matter

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Ive read it a few times in posts, but this proves me wrong! Maybe someone will come in a chime in on the matter

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Matt,
I'm not claiming anything as definite as "you are wrong", but I did want to interject and state that I have seen some thing that are contrary to your original statements. I too would definitely like to hear some other experiences.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Matt,
I'm not claiming anything as definite as "you are wrong", but I did want to interject and state that I have seen some thing that are contrary to your original statements. I too would definitely like to hear some other experiences.

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Ive just seen my fair shair of a spider mixes with no problems along with the odd post every now and then I thought that it was true, but Ive also read of combos having the spin and wobble on occasion. I tried looking up the posts I read this in seeing if I could find out more information but did not have any luck.

boy this thread is all over the place!! :) but a few comments:

There are/have been at least 3 scaleless/partially scaleless bps in existence. I assume the are all still alive.

It think it might well have heat sensing ability still from the skin on the nose, of course it doesn't have heat "pits" because the pits are created by the scales themselves.

As far as I can tell from my experience there is absolutely no recipe for making non-wobbling spiders... even if you start out with one that doesn't. Spider combos are equally likely to wobble.

Justin