I tried keeping them separated

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

He uses tubs of course... again, I am NOT saying BPs in small enclosures are unhappy at all! All I say is that big enclosures don't hurt and that they make sense if maintained well :)

---

Not exactly you said

Quote:

---

the larger the better

---

which would imply that smaller enclosures are not best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No one said to move away from tubs... or did I miss this? Tubs are easy to maintain, clean etc... and the snakes do their thing properly in there as well. Does that mean that a big tank that is maintained properly by an experienced keeper is worse? No, of course not. Is it worse for an inexperienced keeper? Yes, of course it is. So I am with you basically, but again, I do not believe one bit that a BP does feel uncomfortable in a well maintained big tank with plenty of hides.

---

The point I was making was more that people with little to no experience coming here asking for help should never be advised that they can or should deviate from proven methods. This is something you only do when you have years of experience and familiarity with an animal under your belt. The topic of this thread is keeping two housed together in a larger enclosure - something which is a huge deviation. Yes, I generalized, but the direction of the thread was getting bogged down with the old, "large enclosures aren't bad" direction as much as the question of housing the two together.

So I guess more on track:
His snakes are obviously trying to assert dominance over one another - so what if others can house two together successfully, or so what if others have properly managed to make use of a large enclosure... It's not working here and there seems to be a general lack of knowledge of snake behaviour involved as well, so to advise that he is able to deviate without this knowledge and experience under his belt is not a good idea. Ever.

Also an attempt to point out that the thread seemed to get way off topic with a lot of bickering about who thinks what is best debate type stuff, which doesn't help someone new to the hobby actually learn about their animals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

Not exactly you said
which would imply that smaller enclosures are not best.

---

Not best does not mean bad... ;) I'm sure that bigger enclosures with plenty of hides and proper maintenance are better than smaller ones, but that does not make the smaller ones bad at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GirDance

The point I was making was more that people with little to no experience coming here asking for help should never be advised that they can or should deviate from proven methods. This is something you only do when you have years of experience and familiarity with an animal under your belt. The topic of this thread is keeping two housed together in a larger enclosure - something which is a huge deviation. Yes, I generalized, but the direction of the thread was getting bogged down with the old, "large enclosures aren't bad" direction as much as the question of housing the two together.

So I guess more on track:
His snakes are obviously trying to assert dominance over one another - so what if others can house two together successfully, or so what if others have properly managed to make use of a large enclosure... It's not working here and there seems to be a general lack of knowledge of snake behaviour involved as well, so to advise that he is able to deviate without this knowledge and experience under his belt is not a good idea. Ever.

Also an attempt to point out that the thread seemed to get way off topic with a lot of bickering about who thinks what is best debate type stuff, which doesn't help someone new to the hobby actually learn about their animals.

---

I agree, good post. So let's stay on topic :) Sorry if I took this off-topic... :oops:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Please check pages 6 & 7 on this document: http://www.stevegorzulapresents.com/...thon_ghana.pdf

Hunters often find BP hides by looking for trails leading into holes, and entries that are 'smooth'... that implies that snakes do move around at night a lot.

---

That hardly implies that they move around a lot or what time of day. It means that a snake is inhabiting that burrow, and moves in and out of the hide entrance. It reveals nothing other than that a snake is using it. It is by no means conclusive of how far or how often that snake moves about.

It's preached that bps should have two identical hides, right? And, that tubs are favorable over glass enclosures, correct? Can I ask then why is it that those using the tub setups only have one hide?

Also, the tubs look rather small. Is it still possible to keep a temp gradient?

I'm not trying to open another can of worms or anything, I'm just curious.

I practice what I preach... every snake gets 2 hides, something to climb on(fake tree of some sort), and a water dish. I prefer tubs over glass just bc they hold the heat/humidity better and theyre cheaper. As far as the temp gradient I cant answer that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TanyaL

It's preached that bps should have two identical hides, right? And, that tubs are favorable over glass enclosures, correct? Can I ask then why is it that those using the tub setups only have one hide?

Also, the tubs look rather small. Is it still possible to keep a temp gradient?

I'm not trying to open another can of worms or anything, I'm just curious.

---

I have two hides :) But I don't always use them... Why? Because Kitty seems to go through phases where she enjoys just moving one hide around, but I can fit two hides easily, and sometimes use both just to see if she'll bother to make use of them both instead of converting one into a mobile home.... Sometimes she does, but when I notice that she's just pushing the other one around I take one out so that she has free reign... They are identical in every way.

I also have a temp gradient. 3" flexwatt on the furthest end, regulated by herpstat to stay at 91, a 10x10" UTH in the middle which doesn't heat at all evenly (and which I hate) also on the herpstat and kept right beside the flexwatt which stays between 82-85 depending on which part of the UTH you measure the temp over, Ambient air temp and approx 6-7" on the far side stay between 77-80.

So yes, its possible to keep a temp gradient, in my case I provide warm, middle ground, cool.

And just because it looks small doesn't mean it is small. I have more floor space in my tub (measuring out by square inch) than I would if I were using the 10G or 20G aquariums we have, it's just much shorter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TanyaL

It's preached that bps should have two identical hides, right? And, that tubs are favorable over glass enclosures, correct? Can I ask then why is it that those using the tub setups only have one hide?

Also, the tubs look rather small. Is it still possible to keep a temp gradient?

I'm not trying to open another can of worms or anything, I'm just curious.

---

Yes it is very easy to keep a temp gradient UTH heating only heats the spot it is placed, 4" away it will be ambient temps.

I myself keep 2 hides but when using small tubs some keepers feel the tub alone makes them secure enough and they will go wherever they want but keep hide on warmer side. I have used one long hide before that covers warm and cool areas and they can move to the corner they prefer.


As far as the big tank theories I think Brian from BHB summed it up when he said for many years snakes were kept in larger enclosures and what they found is they spent 99% of the time in one smaller area of tank, wasting the majority of the space. When they moved them into smaller enclosures they found improved eating and breeding habits. This is evaluating 100's if not 1000's of animals not just a few. So no one is saying that you cant house them in larger tanks, thats how it was done for years, what they are saying is the people that work with large amounts of snakes have found better results with smaller enclosures for BP's. I have snakes that could care less where they are and others that are always nervous and paranoid and have to be in small tubs hiding constantly. So this is not every snake but some more than others.
To each his own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TanyaL

It's preached that bps should have two identical hides, right? And, that tubs are favorable over glass enclosures, correct? Can I ask then why is it that those using the tub setups only have one hide?

Also, the tubs look rather small. Is it still possible to keep a temp gradient?

I'm not trying to open another can of worms or anything, I'm just curious.

---

A lot has to do with knowing your animals and be in tune with them, which is often hard for a first time owner. This is why when I offer advice it is based on what I know will work even for an inexperienced owner.

Until the new owner acquires some experience and becomes confident about his husbandry everything should be done and recommended on the safe side.

Now do I provide 2 hides? No, but again it depends on the setup, the animal itself and being in tune with the animal.

Does a tub allow temps gradients? Absolutely!