the snake/human relationship

im confused

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Originally Posted by JLC

In some ways, it appears to be a game of semantics. What one person means whey they say a word such as "like" does not always mean what someone else might be thinking. I don't have any problems with someone suggesting their snake "likes" them because it appears to behave in a more secure and relaxed manner around them.

But not all this language boils down to personal opinion or semantic games. A word such as "tolerate" is not subjective. If a ball python is tolerating someone's attention, it shows by a relaxed attitude of either falling asleep or attempting to explore. If it is not tolerating someone, it also shows, by a tense balled up posture, or hissing or even striking.

Where we tend to get a bit divisive is when we try to define our ectothermic friends with human emotions. As humans, it is in our nature to want to experience some sort of bond with anyone or anything we care about. Heck, we even do it with inanimate objects like a favorite stuffed toy or a cherished book or photograph. I think I'm pretty darned safe in saying that my teddy bear feels no love toward me and would feel no pain at being separated from me. But that doesn't mean my heart accepts that truth when I drop the bear into a charity bin to pass him on to a child in need. It's one thing to know something intellectually...but something else to also accept that truth into your heart.

Snakes aren't teddy bears, though. They're actually alive. So maybe they DO feel something??? While I think it is the height of hubris to assume and insist that snakes feel nothing....I also believe that they don't feel "emotions" as we humans understand them. The bonds built between me and a beloved snake are real enough...but in all liklihood, just as one-sided as the bond between me and my teddy bear.

(And I do realize the OP isn't talking about emotional bonds...but rather just physical recognition....it's late....and I tend to talk too much after midnight. :P My thoughts on that...I believe there is enough anecdotal evidence to convince me that snakes can and do recognize certain people, if they have enough regular, consistent contact with them. However, I believe this recognition is not personal...but merely another facet of their environment.)

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excellent post Judy!!!

:rockon:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Snakes aren't teddy bears, though. They're actually alive. So maybe they DO feel something??? While I think it is the height of hubris to assume and insist that snakes feel nothing....

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I'll second that. Its not like I really think that there is some complex stuff going on in that little head. But, I don't buy the whole "robot personality" theory at all.

I'm not sure why this topic is divisive. There is a valid concern for the snake's safety if somebody starts getting some wacky ideas and tries to treat it like a cat or dog or something. Other than that, I find it surprising that anybody can get so adamant about something that is so abstract. Ultimately, we'll never *really* know what its like to be a snake so its all speculation for fun anyway.

I hope one day this thread dies.

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Originally Posted by bearhart

I'm not sure why this topic is divisive. There is a valid concern for the snake's safety if somebody starts getting some wacky ideas and tries to treat it like a cat or dog or something. Other than that, I find it surprising that anybody can get so adamant about something that is so abstract. Ultimately, we'll never *really* know what its like to be a snake so its all speculation for fun anyway.

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I'll agree with that, too. I don't understand why, but the hobby certainly has its share of people who seem intent on making sure everyone sees it their way. When it comes to the health and well being of the animals, I can understand...but if someone wants to believe their snake wuvs them.... :giggle: It's no skin off my nose. :P

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Originally Posted by darkangel

I hope one day this thread dies.

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Why? :confused: It's always an interesting discussion....I think. And if someone doesn't like it, or loses interest...they don't have to open the thread anymore. :confuzd:

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'll agree with that, too. I don't understand why, but the hobby certainly has its share of people who seem intent on making sure everyone sees it their way. When it comes to the health and well being of the animals, I can understand...but if someone wants to believe their snake wuvs them.... :giggle: It's no skin off my nose. :P

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It's the internet, it's a public forum..... as you said, some people are intent on forcing their view point as the only view point. It's all a part of human nature as I see it.... and to a degree, it's what makes a forum work.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Why? :confused: It's always an interesting discussion....I think. And if someone doesn't like it, or loses interest...they don't have to open the thread anymore. :confuzd:

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Easy... it was just sarcasm. I wasn't being completely serious.

I do think it's a fun discussion. I had a good time participating in it.

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Originally Posted by darkangel

I do think it's a fun discussion. I had a good time participating in it.

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me too.

but wait....you make it sound like its OOOVERRRRR bwahahahahah

:P

I think for me anyways, where I have a problem with the whole "my snake loves me" type thing is it sometimes doesn't end there. It can for some people move on to "my snake loves to drive around in the car with me", "my snakes loves visits to the pet store", "my snake loves to play with my kitty". I'm not exaggerating to make a point. Every one of those comes from either my experience with that sort of owner or from threads on this very forum.

That's one reason I'm always very uncomfortable with folks that go that way too much. They begin to put some many human or non-snake emotions on to the snake that they lose sight of the boundaries inherent in owning a snake. They stop seeing what a snake is and what it isn't. That's when I get very vocal about such things as I can't see why we even need to impose our human standard of emotion on a creature that is perfectly designed by nature to be and do what it needs to.

I don't think it matters if any of our snakes like me or know me from anyone else. I've seen some evidence that in certain hands they react better to handling but that's just what it is. I think it's enough that I like them and know them each as individuals, feel honored to share a life with them and that they are thriving and healthy in our care. :)