Rats versus Mice

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I do! :D

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So do I. ;) Thats why I haven't voted.

I feed monty Small Rats now but started on mice and he took to rats better I feel its up to the snake. :rockon:

I have raised several hundred babies from babies to adulthood. In my opinion its going to be up the individual snake as to which prey item they prefer.
I start every baby I hatch or get in from Captive hatched on mouse hoppers. In my experience it is much more stimulating to the snakes to eat quicker then on rat pinks or fuzzies. I ususally start trying to switch them to rats aroung 250 grams.. 90+% will switch no problems about 5% will never switch over...
Its easier to feed 1 rat instead of 5 mice to an adult ball.. thats why I try to switch them over.
I have had the experience to raise siblings side by side on rats and mice as one would not switch and believe it or not The mouse feeder grew faster, ate more and got to breeding size in 18 months(female)1800gr. while the other female was only 1100 grams at the same time...
Just one test I have done but it spoke to me that possibly mouse feeders can be better growers...
Also African Soft furred rats are the balls natural food source. I have now raised several animals solely on those... No real noticable difference to me...

My girl is stuck on mice right now at about 600 grams, Id like to get her back on rats but id rather see her eat then starve. The only thing I dont like about feeding rats is I find them a lot more personable then mice. They also scream to high hell when they get attacked. A good arguement for mice is the python usualy feeds more often when eating smaller meals compared to a small medium rat.

Rats are a lot more defensive and aggressive then mice. I have never seen a mouse strike at my bp but have seen a few rats.

Male mice stink to high hell, they can smell up my whole upstairs within a hour, the smell doesnt clear fora day or two. I feed strictly Female mice from now on!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Not to be contrary (well, ok, maybe a little :P ) - but why is bigger better? Better for the snake, or more convenient for the keeper?

40 grams of rat or 40 grams of mice, what's the difference? Even my adults only get about 40-50 grams a week. They really don't need more than that.

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Yes there is a difference, and I'm not talking nutrition either... (as previsously stated we do not know the nutritional needs of a ball python)

I read some research on the matter, (can't remember where at the moment, I'll look for it and get back to yall) that actually states two mice is better for a snake than a rat. Sure, the rat may be more nutritous, but 2+ mice has everything a bp needs and then some. The reason two+ mice is better for a snake is due to the size and ease of digestion. Skin and hair are VERY taxing on the digestive system to digest and usually the last parts digested along with the bones. So then if the skin/hair is the last thing to be digested, then how does the rest of the animal get digested first? Easy, the acids seep in through the bodies orifaces, aka the mouse and rectum and digest the prey from the inside out. Two+ mice provide atleast twice the openings for acids to reach their targets and aids/speeds digestion hence causing less stress to the snake because it is widely known that digestion is a whole body experience for a snake. Digestive tract has to expand, organs secrete far more bodily juices to digest the prey, the heart enlarges, breathing becomes labored. etc etc.

This is not to say that feedig rats is bad, however contrary to popular belief 2+ mice are just as good, if not better than an equivalent sized rat.:salute:

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Originally Posted by Gooseman

The reason two+ mice is better for a snake is due to the size and ease of digestion. Skin and hair are VERY taxing on the digestive system to digest and usually the last parts digested along with the bones.

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I think the idea that rats are more nutritious comes from the fact that you can get the same amount of usable meat out of a single rat as multiple mice that ultimately weigh more (due to the increased surface area and amount of bone structure in the multiple smaller animals).

That said, I would expect the opposite of your explanation of the effect on the snake's digestive system to be true. Seeing as how the digestive fluids in a snake work from the inside out, it would seem the lower surface area of the rat would make for faster and more complete digestion, since it only has to seep into a single package that is smaller (by volume) than the numerous smaller packages required to provide an equivilent amount of usable food.

I feed rats. I don't try to feed multiple prey items.

Here's a link to rodentpro's nutritional guide. From looking at it I guess it depends on what you think you snake needs and everything varies depending on age and weight of the prey item. So its up to the individual owner on what they are shooting for.

http://rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

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Originally Posted by erobinson

Here's a link to rodentpro's nutritional guide. From looking at it I guess it depends on what you think you snake needs and everything varies depending on age and weight of the prey item.

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Looking at that chart, it seems that the nutrition to waste ratio of a domestic mouse is at it peak between 3-10g, and goes down from there, whereas the rats continue to increase that ratio with size. This would seem to infer that if your snake is taking in more than a 10g mouse, it would probably be better off on rats.

(of course YMMV -- we feed mice because they're little bastards, and we like rats)

I can't claim to know anything specific about the physical makeup of mice versus rats. But based on my general knowledge I am very skeptical that there is any significant nutritional difference between mice and rats. Certainly there will be differences in the relative amounts of various compounds. My guess is that, whatever they are, they are negligible.

Let's suppose rats and mice would both be considered "red" meat. So, a corollary in humans might be asking whether lamb or beef is "more nutritional". I'm guessing you could make a convincing argument for beef but I really doubt you could prove it had any significant effect on average lifespan.

Anway, I make the rat vs. mouse choice based solely on size. I feed my little corn mouse pinkies. I feed my JCP small or medium rats. I switch between rats and mice for my BP depending on how big a meal I want to give him.

Funny, looking at that table, mice actually seem slightly better to me because they are leaner. I would have guessed the other way around.