Pied-$$??

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

I'll take a pair of lessers, a trio of ghosts, and a pair of caramels...you have the address, call before you ship! :fest2:

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You've gotten enough for free! ... My mom says HI!! :groinkick

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Actually ... yes (SHOCKER!!! :P ).

Does Jimmy care? Of course not.

Can anything be done about Jimmy? Well, other than praying that he hooks up with a smoking hot silly that hates his snakes, of course not.

-adam

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This was my next point, does Jimmy even care about the market or his customers investment in 3-4-5yrs?

The real question is, will buyers be pissed at Jimmy for his 1/2 priced snakes being sold from his bedroom? Do you really think the public in general would be upset if they could buy an Albino BP for $500 or less? I know to some breeders the thought of this is worse than death, but is it so bad for that guy who saw that Albino at $5000, but couldn't afford it?

Would anyone honestly be upset if someone sold them a perfectly healthy, feeding Pied male for $2000 and actually delivered a perfectly healthy feeding Pied male as promised? Or would you absolutely insist on paying the balance of $3000 when you received the snake? This question is not aimed at anyone in particular, I'm just curious.

Adam is offering a sale on 06 Albinos...$750 Shipped!
Just for the month of April! $750 Shipped!

How many of us would be upset at Adam for dumping compared to how many of us would be putting $750 on that Visa or MasterCard? Adam, put me down for 2.5!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You've gotten enough for free! ... My mom says HI!! :groinkick

-adam

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Fine, I'll pay for shipping...:P

Give your mom a hug for me. ;)

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Originally Posted by ssscales

How many of us would be upset at Adam for dumping compared to how many of us would be putting $750 on that Visa or MasterCard? Adam, put me down for 2.5!

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with that thinking i could buy the 2.5 from you at 300 a piece right? lol i'd be pissed, try spending a couple years cleaning and feeding to see a project dumped! you can always make more money, time you can't get back!


vaughn

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Originally Posted by ssscales

Breeder "B", we'll call him "Jimmy".
Just turned 18yrs old, not a care in the world, living at home with his parents. No responsibility except his part time job at PetCo to pay for the insurance and gas on his Mustang daddy helped him buy last year. Jimmy goes ahead and buys a group of 4-5 100% Het females and 1-2 Albinos from breeder "A" for $7500 at market value.

Why should we expect Jimmy with his breeding group of Albinos that he bought from breeder "A" price those same snakes at the same price tag as breeder "A"?

All Jimmy has to worry about is the RodentPro bill every two months for under $100 and his initial ROI. He makes his ROI with his 2nd clutch even at 1/2 price of breeder "A". Jimmy won't pay taxes on his sales either! Jimmy can sell that same Albino for 1/2 the price of breeder "A" and probably clear more on the same sale! Jimmy just made about the same if not more $$$ selling those snakes at 1/2 the market value than he would make all year at his part time as PetCo.

Jimmy doesn't really see this as losing $1000 per snake, he sees it as making $1000 per snake!

Any thoughts?

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Good for Jimmy, when he sells his estimated 12 Albinos that he produces he is out of the game for the rest of the year, that leaves 5000+ other people wanting Albinos that Jimmy doesn't have, congratulations to the people that got Jimmy's cheap snakes, see ya next year Jimmy.....:)

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Originally Posted by ssscales

This was my next point, does Jimmy even care about the market or his customers investment in 3-4-5yrs?

The real question is, will buyers be pissed at Jimmy for his 1/2 priced snakes being sold from his bedroom? Do you really think the public in general would be upset if they could buy an Albino BP for $500 or less? I know to some breeders the thought of this is worse than death, but is it so bad for that guy who saw that Albino at $5000, but couldn't afford it?

Would anyone honestly be upset if someone sold them a perfectly healthy, feeding Pied male for $2000 and actually delivered a perfectly healthy feeding Pied male as promised? Or would you absolutely insist on paying the balance of $3000 when you received the snake? This question is not aimed at anyone in particular, I'm just curious.

Adam is offering a sale on 06 Albinos...$750 Shipped!
Just for the month of April! $750 Shipped!

How many of us would be upset at Adam for dumping compared to how many of us would be putting $750 on that Visa or MasterCard? Adam, put me down for 2.5!

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I don't fault any buyer for getting a deal. Everyone likes a deal. Do you really believe that when I invest in animals I don't try and get the best price that I can? That's just smart business. Buy low, sell high ... people have made fortunes that way.

It's a double edged sword, you want to get the best price, but you also want to support the market and make sure the prices stay high enough year over year for all of us to still be doing this in 25 years if we want to. I balance my buy low and sell high conundrum by trying to put "new money" into the market each year ... lots of breeders just trade or buy new animals with "snake" money, but I feel that injecting a certain about of "new dollars" each year is me doing my part to strengthen the market.

I do feel sorry for the buyers that get that "great deal" from Jimmy only to find that when they are producing snakes and hoping to use some of that money towards the mortgage or to buy school shoes for their kids that Jimmy is still at it, selling animals 30% less than they are.

And FWIW, by the time albinos are $750 each, I won't be selling them anymore ... By that time, my customers that have bought hets over the years will be in full swing with albino production, and I will gladly get out of the way so that they can make some sales. I believe in helping that people that put their faith in me.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

see ya next year Jimmy.....:)

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Jimmy would be a popular guy at Daytona. :P

-adam

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

Good for Jimmy, when he sells his estimated 12 Albinos that he produces he is out of the game for the rest of the year, that leaves 5000+ other people wanting Albinos that Jimmy doesn't have, congratulations to the people that got Jimmy's cheap snakes, see ya next year Jimmy.....:)

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Right answer!!
I hear and read about breeders sending hate mail and threats to others selling for less than they are. IMO, just let these guys sell out, once he's done chances are there will still be buyers wanting to buy and will happily pay your asking price.

If it takes a few months, you've got an older snake possibly worth more! :D

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

It's a double edged sword, you want to get the best price, but you also want to support the market and make sure the prices stay high enough year over year for all of us to still be doing this in 25 years if we want to. I balance my buy low and sell high conundrum by trying to put "new money" into the market each year ... lots of breeders just trade or buy new animals with "snake" money, but I feel that injecting a certain about of "new dollars" each year is me doing my part to strengthen the market.

And FWIW, by the time albinos are $750 each, I won't be selling them anymore ... By that time, my customers that have bought hets over the years will be in full swing with albino production, and I will gladly get out of the way so that they can make some sales. I believe in helping that people that put their faith in me.

-adam

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This is the difference between a solid breeder Vs those just in it for the quick buck! This is what you want to look for in a breeder when purchasing investment quality snakes for your breeding stock, not the Easter Sale Weekend Special.

Now can I have those Albinos for $750?

Wow, this thread really took off.

A few thoughts... I think your Chinese food analogy was a bit off, Adam. I think a more reasonable analogy would be the electronics market. Prices always start out high, the companies doing the R&D sell high until the little companies start mass producing them and eventually people are buying $20 DVD players at Walmart. Being a breeder, you have a choice of being a low cost Chinese manufacturer, someone selling at the flea market, or a high end company catering to people that want a name, quality, etc.

I think it's kind of counterproductive to get too upset over people selling low, though. I doubt if 90% of the people getting into this really put the time and thought into running their own business more than setting up a website and posting ads on KS. I think a lot of people jumping into this market get into it because they either like raising snakes, or the have a hard time seeing past the dollar signs. Either way, there are a lot of those people out there and I think you just have to take that into consideration when developing your business strategy. The nice thing about Balls, though, is that there seems to be a huge amount of morphs and combos to work with so even a little guy can market a nice high end model to the discriminating consumer. ;)