Super Spider and other stuff....

i dont get it. anybody who is a somebody KNOWS that pinstripes slither backwards AND they swallow their food thru their other end. DUH!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kavmon

what's so funny? you'll haven't heard about the "backpins" before?


vaughn

---

:rofl: Hmm, backpins huh? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alexrls

i dont get it. anybody who is a somebody KNOWS that pinstripes slither backwards AND they swallow their food thru their other end. DUH!

---

OK, now you are killin me here. :neener:

You are all really funny ppl.

Quote:

---

If you buy from a reputable breeder with a great reputation you'll get the skinny ... heck, even if you don't buy, most of the time if you just call them up and get them talking they'll tell you what you want to know ... but if you're waiting for the big guys to address the masses on a public forum it's just not going to happen ... at least I hope that it never does ... because in the end, all that will do is give the window shoppers and the bottom feeders more ammo to try and pick apart the hobby that I love over something as petty as jealousy.

---

Actually Adam, by those who keep secrets I was mainly referring to you and your statement that you hope potentially negative information (and apparently with you that is most any information) isn't shared in public forums. If window shoppers don't mater and all the customers of reputable breeders are informed of the problems some time between proving interest and actually making the purchase then why not just share the information publicly?

What do I need to prove? That the public didn't know about spinning spiders or kinked caramels until long after the breeders working with them did? You are recommending that this continue, are you arguing that it hasn’t happened? We agree that reputable breeders inform their customers. Are we also agreed that not all breeders are reputable? I think the two spider sale examples (I have no idea who sold them) without knowledge of the spinning issue are enough to establish that the public could benefit from more information earlier. Actually one of those purchases was after it was public, so we need more threads keeping it in the public eye. The question is then if the public benefit outweighs the cost to those who already have spiders. If they are all reputable breeders who are going to tell their customers anyway then what's the cost of letting their customers know earlier while they are still part of the window shopping public?

I have no idea what the various spider and caramel breeders told their customers. My point is they didn’t post about the problems in public until someone else broke the news first. I don’t see how that secrecy can benefit anyone other than the possible non reputable breeders unless it’s to insulate prices against the inevitable public opinion backlash when the information eventually becomes public. What’s the point in delaying? It just means a larger and larger group of breeders will hold the morph when it does become public.

I also don’t know if pinstripes have any significant problems. But based on the short history of ball python morphs I bet if they do it will be a long time before the public finds out about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Actually Adam, by those who keep secrets I was mainly referring to you and your statement that you hope potentially negative information (and apparently with you that is most any information) isn't shared in public forums.

---

Twist my words any way that you like Randy, but I never said that I hope potentially negative information doesn't make it to the public ... Just to be clear because you seem to have some problems comprehending the English language what I said is that I hope that big breeders never just start giving out details of their breeding projects on public forums. That information that breeders have about their projects as well as the years of experience they have to share is their competitive advantage in a very cut throat industry ... They spend huge money out of their own pockets to get these projects started and it’s THEIR decision as to whom they choose to share information about those projects with …. Big breeder are very loyal to their customers as they should be and if you buy from them or show an interest in buying from them they will commonly share TONS of information with you, but in my opinion, they owe people that patronize other breeders (their competition) or people like yourself that spew negative propaganda and hate against the ball python industry out of sheer jealousy absolutely nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I also don’t know if pinstripes have any significant problems. But based on the short history of ball python morphs I bet if they do it will be a long time before the public finds out about it.

---

Why don't you just make something up about them, as you admitted on this thread, that's what you do right?

I really like how you always manage to dodge my question Randy ... if there are so many problems and so many people not being informed, where are the threads on the BOI from people that have spent thousands of dollars on caramels and spiders that are having problems? Shoot, a person gets a snake that is 30 grams smaller than promised and they run to the BOI, if there are really all of these problems out there I would imagine there would be hundreds of threads from ticked of buyers ... but amazingly there are not?? How do you explain that Randy?

Maybe Randy, you are the only one that is ticked off because breeders aren't giving YOU the information that YOU want ... maybe that's why YOU have to make up LIES about problems with morphs as you have already admitted to doing ... maybe if you'd just pick up the phone and call a breeder like Kevin@NERD and ask the questions that you want answers to we wouldn't have to do this pathetic little dance every couple of weeks ... maybe the real problem with the ball pythons is YOU?

You're sounding more and more desperate Randy ... claws scratching on the walls .... running out of BS to feed people? I think it’s pretty obvious that I’m not the only one that smells it. ;)

-adam

So it's not negative information you have a problem with on the Internet, just any information about projects? How would it be ammo if you didn't think it was negative?

What lies have I told? Point out one? I've asked questions and stated possible scenarios for review but what have I stated as fact that isn't true?

Even you have been careful to avoid actually lying. I suspect you have given plenty of false impressions along the way though. Do you really want me to speculate on them?

Quote:

---

if there are so many problems and so many people not being informed, where are the threads on the BOI from people that have spent thousands of dollars on caramels and spiders that are having problems?

---

Have I said there where lots of big spenders getting shafted by big breeders? All I've said is that there where two shafted by unknown breeders. Two is more than enough for me. Who elected you the guilty conscience defender of the big breeders?

Quote:

---

Maybe Randy, you are the only one that is ticked off because breeders aren't giving YOU the information that YOU want ... maybe that's why YOU have to make up LIES about problems with morphs as you have already admitted to doing

---

I do care about the subject but lately I really like to tick you off and watch you walk the razor's edge of lying. I've told no lies.

Quote:

---

... maybe if you'd just pick up the phone and call a breeder like Kevin@NERD and ask the questions that you want answers to we wouldn't have to do this pathetic little dance every couple of weeks ... maybe the real problem with the ball pythons is YOU?

---

So if I called Kevin he would give me all his possibly negative breeding info on caramel, spiders, and womas to post on the web? I'm all about the public disclosure you know. If that's the case why doesn't he just post it himself?

I suspect there are plenty of real problems to spread blame for. We can’t all aspire to the honorable (cough) profession of market promoter like you Adam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeanne

Legitimate disputes conducted in a civil manner are fine, but personal attacks of any sort, including name-calling, innuendo, implication, and rumor-mongering, will NOT be tolerated

---

Might not be my place, but no need for personal attacks. I know we've all seen the ToS, lets try to keep it friendly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

So it's not negative information you have a problem with on the Internet, just any information about projects? How would it be ammo if you didn't think it was negative?

---

I feel that big breeders are entitled to keep the information about the fruits of their labor (whether good or bad) for their customers and potential customers ... that's what gives them a competitive advantage. The idea that they should share with the public every little detail about their hard work and level the playing field between them and their competitors is just silly. Like it or not ball pythons are big business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

What lies have I told? Point out one? I've asked questions and stated possible scenarios for review but what have I stated as fact that isn't true?

---

OK ... from earlier in this thread ...

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You mean your plague concept? The one you made up out of thin air?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Absolutely. That's what I do.

---

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Have I said there where lots of big spenders getting shafted by big breeders?

---

You don't have to say it Randy ... you post over and over and over ... month after month ... week after week ... on every single message board that you "feel safe" posting on about spinning spiders, kinked caramels, hypo plagues, possible het markers ... you lay the foundations for a belief that there are lies and deceptions going on in the ball python world and provide ZERO evidence. All I'm saying that if ANY of your speculations have ANY basis in reality, where are the complaints? Surely after all this time there would be one? Right?

[QUOTE=RandyRemington]
I do care about the subject but lately I really like to tick you off and watch you walk the razor's edge of lying. I've told no lies.[/quick]

LOL ... So it's personal for you? ... HAHAHA ... cute ... I'm sure the admins will be happy to know that .... If you think you're ticking me you really have no clue as usual ... ask around about some of the discussions that go on about these silly little threads offline ... ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

So if I called Kevin he would give me all his possibly negative breeding info on caramel, spiders, and womas to post on the web? I'm all about the public disclosure you know. If that's the case why doesn't he just post it himself?

---

If you call Kevin, I have NO IDEA what he will and won't tell you ... he has always be extremely forth coming with me and has taken the time to answer every question that I ask … my point is you’ve never even tried!.... you are supposedly "speculating" about all of these things and crying because no one is sharing information, but you have admittedly never picked up the phone and called the one person that can give you answers or shut you out and lend credence to your theories ... That doesn’t seem a little ridiculous to you?

As to why he doesn't post it himself? I don't know, you'd have to ask him, but if I had to speculate maybe it's so that he can keep the data to himself and use it to sell books and provide his business with an advantage over his competitors. Why should anyone have to give away information for free when it can help them make a sale? Why don't you just call him and ask?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

We can’t all aspire to the honorable (cough) profession of market promoter like you Adam.

---

Randy, I am on this message board every day helping people with ball python questions that will never buy a single animal from me ... I get around 100 emails a day with questions from basic husbandry through investing and genetics and I take the time to answer every single one .... I spend hours every week on the phone talking to people and helping them with their ball python questions and with getting their breeding businesses started ... All this while running two thriving businesses and raising a four year old boy as a single father .... if you want to take cheap shots at me out of desperation, or because I don't let you get away with your “speculation”, that's fine ... I'm a big boy, I can take it ... but think about this .... What have you done for the ball python community? Who have you taken the time to really try to help?

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

We can’t all aspire to the honorable (cough) profession of market promoter like you Adam.

---

Easy there, Killer. Them's fighting words now. I'm just one person, but my experiences with Adam both on the board and in phone calls have been invaluable to me for the care of my ball python (and he's answered any questions I've had about kinking in caramels - for example - all I had to do was ask).

Sure, now I've just made a deal with him on two 100% het males, but even before I ever became a customer, Adam would spend hours on the phone answering even the most inane questions. He figuratively held my hand through my crisis with Kashmire's internal parasites, in fact, he's the one who recognized the signs and suggested he get seen by a vet.

Adam - honorable? YOU BETCHA!!!!!!!!

Just curious though, have you ever picked up the phone to talk to Adam, or do you just like to pick fights with him on the forums?

Take it easy there, ladies.