Snabitat Build

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

My hygrometer has been located in the middle of the tat, I just moved it to the cool side that’s wrapped and it’s reading 77. Maybe I’m actually not that far off. I ordered 2 more hygrometers so I can have one on each end and one in the middle.

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Glad to hear it. Of your proposed modifications, I would prioritize the humid hide. I like them because they allow your BP to regulate their own humidity. If he needs more, he ducks into the hide. When he's had enough, he leaves it. I had one for my BP and it worked great.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Personally, I wouldn't consider putting a UVb light in my enclosure unless I could measure how much UVb my snake was getting. For that, you'll need a Solarmeter, and they're expensive.

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That's great advice (I have a Solarmeter, purchased after a fatal and very dumb user error incident).

For complicated reasons relating to the vitamin D degradation feedback loop, as well as the UVA-based mechanism of exposure self-regulation that at least some herps use, I personally am very skeptical of LED UV lamps at this very early point in their development. Their spectral curve is nowhere near the natural sunlight curve that degradation and self-regulation work in relation to.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Personally, I wouldn't consider putting a UVb light in my enclosure unless I could measure how much UVb my snake was getting. For that, you'll need a Solarmeter, and they're expensive.

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Wowza you weren’t kidding lol. I wonder if I can find someone nearby who has one that I can borrow [emoji848]


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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

That's great advice (I have a Solarmeter, purchased after a fatal and very dumb user error incident).

For complicated reasons relating to the vitamin D degradation feedback loop, as well as the UVA-based mechanism of exposure self-regulation that at least some herps use, I personally am very skeptical of LED UV lamps at this very early point in their development. Their spectral curve is nowhere near the natural sunlight curve that degradation and self-regulation work in relation to.

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Haha you don’t happen to be located near Albany NY by any chance?? UVB is such a complex issue. I think the vet will be very helpful on this issue when I see her in a week or two.


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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Haha you don’t happen to be located near Albany NY by any chance?? UVB is such a complex issue. I think the vet will be very helpful on this issue when I see her in a week or two.

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No, I'm in Wisconsin.

Be advised that qualified herp vets know very very much about medical issues, and typically know no more about husbandry than they've read written by others who have little to no first hand experience with husbandry. Perhaps your vet has kept many ball pythons both with and without UVB throughout all their life stages and actually has some first hand experience, but I suspect that's not the case. Most people recommending UVB for ball pythons lean very heavily on the 'all reptiles benefit from UVB' claim, which is not based on evidence (as universal claims almost never are) and neglects the complications of actually providing UVB in a usable way in captivity.

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

UVB is such a complex issue.

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Correct to some extent. For animals that actually need it, or even actually physically benefit from it in keeper-observable ways, it can be pretty complex. In these cases, it is worth figuring out and doing right.

It is simple insofar as it is completely unnecessary for the captive care of ball pythons, though complexity arises when internet commentators complicate the situation with unwarranted claims of its necessity. Every ball python that reached some captive longevity record was kept most of its life without UVB, and virtually every ball python bred in captivity was done so without the use of UVB, and there are no documented cases of physical illness in ball pythons caused even in part by a lack of UVB.

Ok well I just foiled the lid of the tat and the humidity IMMEDIATELY jumped. I supplemented with a spray but I’m really hopeful this will do the trick. There’s still a bit more area I can cover as well if I need to though.


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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

No, I'm in Wisconsin.

Be advised that qualified herp vets know very very much about medical issues, and typically know no more about husbandry than they've read written by others who have little to no first hand experience with husbandry. Perhaps your vet has kept many ball pythons both with and without UVB throughout all their life stages and actually has some first hand experience, but I suspect that's not the case. Most people recommending UVB for ball pythons lean very heavily on the 'all reptiles benefit from UVB' claim, which is not based on evidence (as universal claims almost never are) and neglects the complications of actually providing UVB in a usable way in captivity.



Correct to some extent. For animals that actually need it, or even actually physically benefit from it in keeper-observable ways, it can be pretty complex. In these cases, it is worth figuring out and doing right.

It is simple insofar as it is completely unnecessary for the captive care of ball pythons, though complexity arises when internet commentators complicate the situation with unwarranted claims of its necessity. Every ball python that reached some captive longevity record was kept most of its life without UVB, and virtually every ball python bred in captivity was done so without the use of UVB, and there are no documented cases of physical illness in ball pythons caused even in part by a lack of UVB.

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Yeah it is so obvious to me that it’s not necessary for healthy animals for exactly this reason. Yet when I posted on r/ballpthons that the benefits of UVB are disputed and that many many balls have been kept without it for years with no ill effects, my comment was removed for being wrong or offering dangerous advice! I’ve done some research on this issue and so far have decided that it seems worth providing but I definitely take your points about the fact that it must not be necessary otherwise all those no uvb snakes would be dead. And that lighting provision is multifactorial and we may not be providing the benefit we think we are. I’ll def continue to do research on this topic!


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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Yet when I posted on r/ballpthons that the benefits of UVB are disputed and that many many balls have been kept without it for years with no ill effects, my comment was removed for being wrong or offering dangerous advice!

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Oh. I would think that incorrect claims are best countered with evidence. :)

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

I’ve done some research on this issue and so far have decided that it seems worth providing

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You of course don't have to defend yourself here, but I'd be curious to see the research. I've done some myself (I do provide UVB to about a half dozen of my animals/groups) and have not encountered any that would give me reason to provide it to a ball python.

Omg my humidity is back down in the 60s! Man this is tough. I mean that’s fine for most of the time but that’s with spraying like 2 times a day :/


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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Oh. I would think that incorrect claims are best countered with evidence. :)



You of course don't have to defend yourself here, but I'd be curious to see the research. I've done some myself (I do provide UVB to about a half dozen of my animals/groups) and have not encountered any that would give me reason to provide it to a ball python.

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To be perfectly fair, they never told me specifically what in my post was so incorrect and I also addressed a variety of aspects of husbandry so I’m just making an educated guess about the reason. But I thought the fact that they never even posted trying to clear things up (from their perspective) was pretty problematic. I just got the rote: “this post was deleted due to inaccurate/harmful information” message. And I was really stumped about what they could have possibly been referring to.


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