Is "The Truth" owed an apology?

Yes,

I noticed the actual info hadn't been posted yet in either thread . Get on with it. :fork:


dr dle

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Originally Posted by dr del

Yes,

I noticed the actual info hadn't been posted yet in either thread . Get on with it. :fork:


dr dle

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Getting a leeetle inpatient Doc? This thread hasn't really even gotten started yet. Is there any BG fans out there that want to do a leeetle extra credit work for him and find all the threads where people posted their breeding Deserts and their Desert babies. This will help BG a lot.:gj:

Yes, I'd love to hear the post, BG, :gj: I've seen you post threads like this before and it tends to end up being true. After a bit of teasing the members :P


But I'm very curious about what you and whoever you are hinting about know about this matter. I'm waiting patiently :D

Big Gunns,

Can I ask you not to quote peoples posts from other forums like that?

This isn't really the proper place for it and it skirts far to close to the following rules for my personal comfort.

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Originally Posted by Site F.A.Q.

3. No Hate Speak. This includes, but is not limited to: cursing; threats of violence; racial, gender, religious, or sexual slurs; personal attacks; and speech intended to cause or further a "flame war" or personal vendetta. This includes vindictive use of the Reputation System and Private Messages. Ultimately, it will be up to the staff (the mods and ultimately the admins) to determine if any given post or thread has crossed these lines.

12. Links or text with the purpose of recruiting members to competing sites are not allowed. Linking to other sources for the purposes of sharing something unavailable at BP.net and/or for the purposes of promoting reasonable and appropriate discussion are allowed. However, links to other forums for the purposes of slamming the site, an individual, or other inflammatory action are not allowed.

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If you feel there is proven case to answer about any individuals then the proper place to put them would be the inquiries/ feedback forum.

But at this point with no evidence laid out for anyone to respond to or rebut I do not think it is fair to anyone to allow such posts.

I don't think anyone of us would like it if it happened to them on another forum so I see no reason for us to allow it here.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Big Gunns,

Can I ask you not to quote peoples posts from other forums like that?

This isn't really the proper place for it and it skirts far to close to the following rules for my personal comfort.



If you feel there is proven case to answer about any individuals then the proper place to put them would be the inquiries/ feedback forum.

But at this point with no evidence laid out for anyone to respond to or rebut I do not think it is fair to anyone to allow such posts.

I don't think anyone of us would like it if it happened to them on another forum so I see no reason for us to allow it here.


dr del

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Well BG will have you know that BG asked someone in red whether or not BP.net could handle this type of thread before he posted it. Apparently that's not going to be the case. Oh well....he tried fans....but it looks like bringing out "The Truth" may be a leeeetle too much for things around here. Wish it wasn't, but it now appears so.

BG will have to go back to helping people with heating and lighting. The real important stuff. ;):D Well....maybe not. BG will have to see. Clearly though if that post was too much..... what BG has to say after that will go waaaaaayyyy over the terms of the TOS. Funny though. It would have been all factual "Truth", but some would lie to say it wasn't.

One last thing. That leeeetle sentence you highlighted in the TOS has ABSOLUTELY NO MERIT with my posts. This is not some "personal vendetta"....BG does not want to do this. This is also not some "flame war". BG is trying to help his fellow consumers with who knows what and when they knew it. How does that apply at all BG asks? Just because it looks like that may be the case to you Doc "from the outside", it does not mean it's the case. It's 100% is not the case.

However....the last sentence you highlighted might apply. Unfortunately for the members of BP.net for this reason BG now sees he can't finish this thread the way it needs to be finished(maybe). BG did ask someone in red first though. At least you have to give him that "powers that be".

Is pointing out "hypocrisy" considered "slamming" though?

bg... you know what I say... Blow the roof off this place with the truth... lets have at it... lets see what you know and lets see what the real truth is... :)

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Originally Posted by JasonG

bg... you know what I say... Blow the roof off this place with the truth... lets have at it... lets see what you know and lets see what the real truth is... :)

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I will second that,i have about15 deserts and desert combos and have held back all my females this season because nobody wants to buy them.am i wasting my time with this project :(

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Well BG will have you know that BG asked someone in red whether or not BP.net could handle this type of thread before he posted it. Apparently that's not going to be the case.

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Neil, having an admin tell you it's ok to start a discussion about desert breeding issues is NOT the same thing as being given leave to play whatever games you wish however you wish to play them.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Oh well....he tried fans....but it looks like bringing out "The Truth" may be a leeeetle too much for things around here. Wish it wasn't, but it now appears so.

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We're still waiting for your "truth" Neil. If you want to bring it, then bring it. This is NOT a case of "shooting the messenger"...this is a case of the messenger teasing the person he's supposed to give the message to. "Nya nya! I've got a message for you and you're not gonna like it but I'm not gonna tell you what it iissss!" :rolleyes: Don't be surprised when patience for that sort of game wears very thin very fast.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Just because it looks like that may be the case to you Doc "from the outside", it does not mean it's the case. It's 100% is not the case.

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It DOES look like that is the case. And looks are all we have to go on. We're not going to try and read your mind.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Is pointing out "hypocrisy" considered "slamming" though?

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The way you're going about it? Yes. Third party anonymous quotes are not going to cut it.

If you have something to say, then say it. WE are not stopping you. But we do NOT have to tolerate being a stage for anyone's drama-inducing game play.

BG, I guess your attempt at calling out certain people to argue with you has failed, so now you're going to call it quits... I think Robyn has said all he needed to say about this subject on another forum, which I will link below. Mods, if this doesn't agree with the TOS, feel free to delete.

Post #234 in this thread at the BLBC: http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...ad.php?t=29653

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Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

Michigan- talk about breeders that rip off customers, that is fine. Do it all day long, but don't lump PE in that group, or make such insinuations, that is wrong. There are plenty of scumbags in the reptile industry, but our breeding has nothing to do with that.

Anthony- I know you support us, and I appreciate that : )

But I can't control what other folks are doing, or not doing, and I don't have any responsibility for what folks were doing, or not doing, with Deserts before we got them. I know that since we have started working with them, interest has exploded. It has only been a few seasons.

I know that ten years ago, I would have been thrilled to see a virgin female breed by the fifth year. In 2011, folks get all uptight if a female doesn't breed by the second or third year.

This conversation/thread is all over the place, literally. Here, BP.net, KS.com, I don't remember what was written where. Here is my recap of thoughts : )

None of the females that we received with our first group of Deserts are ever likely to breed. They might not even break 1400 grams. Leave it at that.

The females that we have hatched out here at Pro Exotics have grown and done fantastically. Beautiful, strong, great weight females. In the spring of 2011, some anonymous douchebag claimed that all Desert females stayed small and scrawny. I posted pics of two of our growing females that were 1500 and 1700 grams.

Those females, a few months later, are now 2200+ grams. They continue to thrive and grow. They are the largest Desert females that we have.

They have been copping, and follicle size is nice, 12-15mm. That is prime time.

I am confident that they will continue to thrive, and that they will breed. We get eggs every month of the year. All females don't cycle in the same 2 months, it is spread out. There is nothing I can do to "force" them to hurry up.

So why does it need 2 more years to prove out? I guess number one because it has already been proven, but folks want "more". Ok.

You yourself wanted some type of magic guarantee deal. Ok. I offered you that. Do you also want to stipulate that the proof must come within 3 months? Come on : )

Guys like Marc Bailey, Dan Wolfe, and some dude named Ralph Davis are working with Deserts, but are a year or two behind us. Their males have been doing amazing things. But I am also excited to see what their females do. Don't you want to give them time to get females up to size and breeding?

I really don't understand the whole "prove it now or it doesn't exist" philosophy. Breeding snakes seemed WAY harder in 1995 than it is now, just by the development of knowledge and technique. I think folks need to gain some time perspective : )

As for other breeders that have gotten clutches but haven't posted pictures here. So what? Online forums are for folks that like online forums. Lots of breeders and hobbyists don't participate online, and not only do they not care what online folks are saying "about them", they don't even know it exists. That's fine, I totally understand. I have a hard time myself just staying moderately current with the handful of Ball python forums, much less monitors, uros, ratsnakes, gilas, boas, Facebook and now Google+. Ugh.

Larry's conversation with the Desert breeder that uses no supplemental heat and got a couple of clutches? Apparently that was a casual conversation and the guy mentioned his Desert clutches. He DIDN'T EVEN KNOW there was discussion about Desert females.

This is a great place to hang out, post, and stay in touch with other breeders, as well as the haps, but LOTS of stuff exists outside of this site, and lots of reptile stuff happens off line altogether.

Just because my mom won't get on Facebook doesn't mean she isn't real : )

If our Desert females didn't grow, I would be concerned. If they dropped dead, I would be concerned. I have seen small females slug out, that gave me concern, and we pushed our target breeding weight to 2000+ grams. Ok. I have G Stripe females, Pied females, and various combo females that haven't bred, yet are 5 or 6 years old. That doesn't really give me a lot of concern either, that is the variability of individuals in a breeding group.

We have a "weird" Pastel female that took 7 or 8 years to finally get to size, much less breed, and now she has thrown clutches 3 out of 5 years. The "weird" part hasn't really come through yet, but that isn't the point there : )

I am super anxious to breed a Desert female, for sure. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen here in house in 2011. But if threads like this didn't exist, I wouldn't give it much more thought other than "try again for 2012".

Mike Powell beat us to breeding Desert females, the KS.com guy did as well. Marc, Dan and Ralph might all beat us there. That's fine, they are all great breeders.

I am confident it will happen. Females look too strong, too healthy, and too cooperative not to throw good eggs. Plus, it has been done before.

I know we will breed the Desert females successfully before we breed the Boelen's females, and we have been trying to do those for 15 years. Talk about frustrating! (and my number one fave python : )

You should take me up on that offer Anthony, the project is awesome and we continue to hatch out super cool combos with them!

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I'd be willing to give it another couple of years before agreeing to a final verdict on this subject. However, it is good to be cautious on Desert females at this point considering the lack of evidence.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

This is also not some "flame war". BG is trying to help his fellow consumers with who knows what and when they knew it. How does that apply at all BG asks? Just because it looks like that may be the case to you Doc "from the outside", it does not mean it's the case. It's 100% is not the case.

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Originally Posted by Wiki

A flame war results when one or more users engages in provocative responses to the originally posted flamebait. Flame wars often draw in many users (including those trying to diffuse the flame war) and can overshadow regular forum discussion if left unchecked.

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Since you have not helped your fellow consumers with who knows what and when they knew it, I don't see how this is not a flame war. Post #1 was the bait was it not?

You used to be pretty good at this, why are your skills lacking lately? While I did think the whole "it would break the TOS" was clever (I was wondering how you were going to back out of it), but I think you played it too long and too many people are onto you. obvious troll can't be obvious.

Since there are other forums we rate trolls, I give you a 4/10 on this one, for the clever out and the couple people you did manage to get mad, but the low score comes from being too obvious. Normally your in the 8+ range. Step it up man.