Nothing like a verbal assault from Petsmart....

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

even breeding your own, you're still better off feeding pk as opposed to live. i have hundreds if not thousands of rodents born every month and not 1 of my over 50 snakes HAS to eat live, they will ALL take pre-killed. if they take pk or ft there's no reason to feed them live, especially to switch them over to it. you're just asking for your snake to get hurt.

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There are reasons why I feed live. My rats are as precious to me as the snakes... they don't die unless they have to. So, when the ball pythons skip meals like they often do, the rats get to live another week.

And about "asking for my snake to get hurt"... today, my son came home with this big gash running down his shin about 1.5 inches wide and 4 inches long. He fell off the playground. He doesn't HAVE to play in the playground... there are a lot of things he can do to expend all that extra energy. So, letting him run around the playground is just asking for him to get hurt. Okay, so what's my point? Well, mainly that boys play in the playground and snakes eat live rats. That's pretty much the way things work around my house. We mitigate accidents by being careful. So far, the boys are still healthy and so are the snakes.

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Originally Posted by anatess

There are reasons why I feed live. My rats are as precious to me as the snakes... they don't die unless they have to. So, when the ball pythons skip meals like they often do, the rats get to live another week.

And about "asking for my snake to get hurt"... today, my son came home with this big gash running down his shin about 1.5 inches wide and 4 inches long. He fell off the playground. He doesn't HAVE to play in the playground... there are a lot of things he can do to expend all that extra energy. So, letting him run around the playground is just asking for him to get hurt. Okay, so what's my point? Well, mainly that boys play in the playground and snakes eat live rats. That's pretty much the way things work around my house. We mitigate accidents by being careful. So far, the boys are still healthy and so are the snakes.

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I agree 100%, I dont live my life in a bubble and snakes don't have to either, if they prefer live and you have the means to give them live and thats what you want to do, don't live in fear of your snake getting hurt, they have been killing live prey forever, and its natural. Now having said that, there prey in the wild is not locked in a box with them, so if you are going to feed live, watch the process to make sure nothing happens to your snake DO NOT JUST DROP IN LIVE AND WALK AWAY. This is dangerous for your snake and they can be hurt this way.

even watching them, they can still get bit, you dont control how the snake grabs the rat. point was better safe than sorry. if you're that worried about having an extra dead rat, you could always bonk em on the head to stun them instead of kill them.

I don't really know how this turned into a debate over live vs. pre-killed but I'll give my two cents anyway. Ball pythons live to eat, hide, and poop. I don't believe in taking anymore natural instincts away from them then absolutely necessary. I think that once a week they should be allowed to stalk, kill, and eat their prey. Not to mention that such lazy animals need a bit of exercise. Now I've been feeding live the whole time I've had snakes and only one time did anyone get hurt. And that was because my boyfriend accidentally dropped a rather large rat right on Louise and it scratched her eye. She was fine a shed later. No scars, no fuss.

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

even watching them, they can still get bit, you dont control how the snake grabs the rat. point was better safe than sorry. if you're that worried about having an extra dead rat, you could always bonk em on the head to stun them instead of kill them.

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And then when the snake doesn't eat the rat, you have a rat waking up who is in a lot of pain. I don't know about you, but when I get hit on the head, it hurts like heck and it doesn't make me a very happy person. And you possibly have a brain damaged animal, depending on how hard they were hit. Leaving them to live like that, in my opinion, is animal cruelty.

My animals get either f/t, pre-killed, or live. No stunning rodents in this house. I am very careful when I feed live. I am always there to intervene should something go wrong. So far, nothing has gone wrong. I always have tongs in hand because if a rat or house does happen to get wrapped up in a bad position, I can easily stick the end of the tongs in the rodent's mouth and let him chew on that until he dies, instead of him chewing on my snake. I have been keeping snakes for 4 years now and not a single one of my snakes has been bitten by a rodent while in my care.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

And then when the snake doesn't eat the rat, you have a rat waking up who is in a lot of pain. I don't know about you, but when I get hit on the head, it hurts like heck and it doesn't make me a very happy person. And you possibly have a brain damaged animal, depending on how hard they were hit. Leaving them to live like that, in my opinion, is animal cruelty.

My animals get either f/t, pre-killed, or live. No stunning rodents in this house. I am very careful when I feed live. I am always there to intervene should something go wrong. So far, nothing has gone wrong. I always have tongs in hand because if a rat or house does happen to get wrapped up in a bad position, I can easily stick the end of the tongs in the rodent's mouth and let him chew on that until he dies, instead of him chewing on my snake. I have been keeping snakes for 4 years now and not a single one of my snakes has been bitten by a rodent while in my care.

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x2 :gj:

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

And then when the snake doesn't eat the rat, you have a rat waking up who is in a lot of pain. I don't know about you, but when I get hit on the head, it hurts like heck and it doesn't make me a very happy person. And you possibly have a brain damaged animal, depending on how hard they were hit. Leaving them to live like that, in my opinion, is animal cruelty.

My animals get either f/t, pre-killed, or live. No stunning rodents in this house. I am very careful when I feed live. I am always there to intervene should something go wrong. So far, nothing has gone wrong. I always have tongs in hand because if a rat or house does happen to get wrapped up in a bad position, I can easily stick the end of the tongs in the rodent's mouth and let him chew on that until he dies, instead of him chewing on my snake. I have been keeping snakes for 4 years now and not a single one of my snakes has been bitten by a rodent while in my care.

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thats great and all, but trust me it CAN happen fast enough that even with you standing there with your tongs, you might not be able to be fast enough. and if you dont want stunned ones and they eat f/t why not just freeze it if the snake wont eat it? or offer it to another snake?

sorry for getting it off track but i just dont see the logic in switching snakes from f/t or pk to live

for the record, i kill mine instantly, offer them to a snake, and if that snake doesnt take it they get offered to another and so on and so on. if by some crazy event none of them would eat it, it would go in the freezer.

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Originally Posted by ice#1

i been doing some thinking and seeing how petsmart refuses to sell to those in the reptile world live feeders then i think as a group we should all picket them for there heartlessly selling other feeders off live as every type of feeder can be kept as a pet by somebody even crickets that means no buying even cages or water bottles from them

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No thank you, I'll opt out of that idea.

It's really not that earth shattering to me and my snakes, and besides, I like my local Petsmart and the employees. They know I keep snakes, the manager even gives me the mis-sexed mice, because she can't sell them (they only sell females at this location), and she knows what their fate will be when she gives them to me.

They've sold me many rats over the years, knowing that they were going to become breeders. They also stop me when I come in to ask me to take a look at different reptiles that they get in and have been known to page me when they knew I was in the store and had someone inquiring about the snakes.

And many people don't see logic in switching to frozen thawed when if done correctly, is a perfectly acceptable method of feeding.

If breeding my own rodents, and I have live rodents ready for feeding, why on Earth would I go all the way to the grocery store, pay $9 for a bag of dry ice (most of which I won't use so its wasted), line a cooler with a trash bag, CO2 a bunch of rodents, and THEN feed them to my snake. If I wanted to spend money and take a car ride, I wouldn't be breeding my own in the first place. And I can't offer pre-killed rodents because I do not know any other methods other than CO2ing (which costs money) and spinal dislocation (I think that is the proper term) and I don't know how to properly do the second one.

Look, all I'm saying is that if someone wants to switch to live for convenience, as long as they do it while supervising the feeding and are there to step in if necessary, I don't see why it should be a problem. The frozen/thawed, pre-killed, live debate has gone on for years and will continue to do so. You feed your snakes the way you want. I'll feed my snakes the way I want. I am confidant in my ability to feed live correctly and without injury to any of my snakes.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, OP!

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

And many people don't see logic in switching to frozen thawed when if done correctly, is a perfectly acceptable method of feeding.

If breeding my own rodents, and I have live rodents ready for feeding, why on Earth would I go all the way to the grocery store, pay $9 for a bag of dry ice (most of which I won't use so its wasted), line a cooler with a trash bag, CO2 a bunch of rodents, and THEN feed them to my snake. If I wanted to spend money and take a car ride, I wouldn't be breeding my own in the first place. And I can't offer pre-killed rodents because I do not know any other methods other than CO2ing (which costs money) and spinal dislocation (I think that is the proper term) and I don't know how to properly do the second one.

Look, all I'm saying is that if someone wants to switch to live for convenience, as long as they do it while supervising the feeding and are there to step in if necessary, I don't see why it should be a problem. The frozen/thawed, pre-killed, live debate has gone on for years and will continue to do so. You feed your snakes the way you want. I'll feed my snakes the way I want. I am confidant in my ability to feed live correctly and without injury to any of my snakes.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, OP!

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its pretty easy, you hold the tail and catch the very back of the skull/front of the neck on the corner of a rack/desk/table/whatever. instant death and i do mean instant