Solana - Our Scaleless Sunglow Motley Corn

What a strange issue- I'll be honest, I've never heard of anyone "brushing" their snake's teeth. So you're saying this is a known issue with some scaleless snakes?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

What a strange issue- I'll be honest, I've never heard of anyone "brushing" their snake's teeth. So you're saying this is a known issue with some scaleless snakes?

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I hadn't heard of brushing a snakes teeth either. I have heard of brushing/removing harder plaque like mouth rot before. Unfortunately, I learned that when Cleo (leopard Gecko) had cancer and her immune system got very week. The vet recommended doing that with a mild cholrhexidine solution that they pre-mixed for me based on her weight and severity.

This was with a small soft paint brush and I didn't use any kind of cleaner. I think that did about 20% and the shed did the rest.

Both Don Soderberg and Brian (from Riverside Reptiles), who have way more experience than I do with reptiles, mentioned it. Brian from his scaleless texas rat and Don who breed scaleless snakes. Don said there is variation and some are impacted by this issue more than others. He has a few snakes who he has to look at/address 1X a year he said. Brian had just adopted this texas rat and it had been neglected, which might have something to do with it.

Solana is not neglected, is in a very clean environment (paper substrate, regular cleanings, etc.), but only has that 1 row of scales around her mouth. I think the issue occurs because her mouth becomes more exposed when she gets closer to shed.

I guess I got lucky with Solana :). Either way, probably being a little over careful, and a little right on careful here. I have not had a vet look or sample, but there really isn't anything to sample. Also, Solana is very cooperative, and I don't believe I am hurting her in anyway.

I cannot comment on other scaleless snakes, but apparently this is a known, but rarer issue with rat snakes who are scaleless.

Solana is looking super. She lost a little weight the past few months with the basement work and not eating regularly, but she's still a healthy 340G dry and looks great. She's back to her 1 adult mouse every two weeks again.

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She looks good- I wouldn't call her skinny.

Beautiful scaleless corn snake! Congrats. Vincent Russo author of “ The more complete Boa Constrictor” and president of the Long Island Herpetological Society in New York started a project back in 2017 with the scaleless corns. He partnered with another of the long time members of our group. They have been pretty successful with their expanding projects since then with the scaleless corns. :gj:

Solana's mouth irritation looked worse the past month and is not healing on its own. I have pics below.

I took her to the vet today and he said he does not think its mouth rot, at least not yet. He does think it's an irritation, probably a scratch or cut from a F/T mouse or she got while actively shedding, that is on its way to getting infected. He thinks she looks great otherwise, but prescribed Chlorhexidine Oral Solution to be applied 1-2X a day and Silvadene Cream to be applied after cleaning the irritated area.

He says he has seen issues like this with other scaleless snakes (he has a scaleless texas rat) and Don Soderberg has as well. I want to share a) because I know people on here like Solana and want to see how she's doing, but also b) because those interested in scaleless snakes should know some of the potential issues up front.

The vet said that I am spot on with temps and cleanliness etc. He did encourage me to up humidity a little for her as that can be helpful for scaleless snakes especially in shed. I am usually good about upping humidity when she is going to shed, but the last time or two probably caught it a little late with the basement being worked on etc. I am upping the size of her water bowl and will be more diligent with keeping humidity up near shed.

The vet thought she was gorgeous and recommended against bloodwork etc. unless she goes downhill, which he doesn't suspect. He also said I can take a day or two off from mouth cleaning after she eats (she eats an adult mouse every two weeks) so she can digest. He figures her mouth will heal up in 1-2 shed cycles.

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Solana does not appreciate being restrained and having her mouth/lips cleaned and having the antibacterial cream applied. Having said that, she's a great sport and is handling it better than I expected. It's also something I can do myself as she's a corn snake and not too difficult to control/handle while applying the treatment(s).

I have decided to apply 1X a day instead of twice a day (which the vet said was fine) as I need to balance keeping it clean and helping it heal without stressing her too much (which would be counterproductive).

I'll keep everyone posted.

The "affected/infected" area on Solana's mouth is starting to scab over. I am hoping/thinking that means it's healing and we are stopping any progression of infection at this point.

What a difference a week or two of meds makes. She still has a noticeable gab in her mouth on the right side, but the tissue itself/the area that was clearly impacted, is no longer inflamed, is no longer scabbed over, and is looking much healthier!

I'll post pics soon, but I am skipping cleaning today and plan to offer food. If she eats, which I assume she will, I'll wait a day or two to offer meds again and then get right back on track.

Solana's mouth is healing nicely. However, I noticed a little "buildup" around the corners of her mouth from having her mouth ajar a little.

So, the past week I've been cleaning and applying the antibacterial solution to her entire mouth. That made a big difference. Additionally, I held off her last feeding so I could keep cleaning etc. Today I didn't bother her and she gobbled down a nice adult mouse.

She seems pretty well healed at this point, which surprises me, because I thought it would take longer. However, I plan to apply the cleaning solution and antibacterial solution for a bit longer, at least until another shed so I can get a really good gauge of where she is it.

After everything is completely healed up, and she's shed, I think I will keep cleaning her mouth at least 1-2X a week to keep it clean and healthy. I will check with the vet to see if I can/should apply the antibacterial solution as well, or less often, etc.

Very interesting- & good news- I hope she continues to improve & stays healthy. Still glad though that none of my snakes need toothbrushes or mouthwash. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Very interesting- & good news- I hope she continues to improve & stays healthy. Still glad though that none of my snakes need toothbrushes or mouthwash. ;)

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Great that it healed/is healing so quickly. Also great she gobbled down her mouse today. Additionally, she's really been a sport about it and is still a sweetie.

I am glad none of your snakes need toothbrushing as well! I guess it's the price I have to pay for such a "designer" morph. If I had to do it again, I probably wouldn't get a scaleless reptile. Lots of added work around shed, and now this, etc. However, I love my girl Solana and I am committed to her (and she is kind of gorgeous), so I'll do what I have to.

Between Yafe and Solana, I've kept my vet on her toes.

Anyone who wants advice on injections, nebulizers, or snake teeth brushing, just call this guy. :).

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Originally Posted by dakski

... Additionally, she's really been a sport about it and is still a sweetie...

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Most corn snakes ARE sweeties. Just because they move around more, or faster than BPs, doesn't mean they're difficult or feisty. They're great beginner snakes (with scales, anyway). ;)

Your vet probably just about has her yacht paid for, thanks to you. :D

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Most corn snakes ARE sweeties. Just because they move around more, or faster than BPs, doesn't mean they're difficult or feisty. They're great beginner snakes (with scales, anyway). ;)

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Touché - on the "with scales."

I agree. Great snakes, period. I may have larger constrictors and "more difficult" snakes in my collection, but both my corns are awesome. Sweet, eat like clockwork, easy to keep and forgiving, come in so many colors and patterns, etc. What else could you want? I recommend for beginners because of tank size and how easy husbandry is, but also know many people who keep them for life. Like me, they still appreciate them.

I do find it funny that many people "feel" that colubrids in general, but definitely corns, are "creepy" or scary because they move fast and in a serpentine way. I find more people are comfortable with my Boas and Pythons because they are so slow and deliberate in their movements. My mom loves holding Behira (Female BI), but doesn't like holding Figment (wiggle worm Lavender Corn). She will hold Solana because she's pretty chill for a corn. Not too much of a wiggle worm once out for a minute.

Like you, I've had MANY snakes & for a very long time- I still love corn snakes too. The forgiving husbandry makes them good for beginners, though their ability to escape when they're hatchlings is a consideration & a good sales-pitch for at least starting with a yearling. Hatchlings are very fragile & not for handling until they grow some anyway.

I think partly what bothers some people about their activity is that they don't understand that the snake isn't about to turn & bite them- they haven't learned to read snakes & "slower" just seems less of a threat, but the funny thing is that BP teeth are WAY bigger & hurt a lot more, lol. The bite of a young corn snake feels like sandpaper, not even "teeth". :D And I love that corn snakes don't get "too big" for easy handling & economical housing. Not to mention their beautiful colors & markings. I think corns just need more "spokes-people". :snake:

Solana just had a perfect shed and looks amazing. I thought I'd share some pics.

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Some pics of Solana and Solana on me and with my mother. She's beautiful.

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Solana with my sister Ally. Ally fed her too.

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Some pics of Solana taken today.

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I love her vivid high-energy orange color- much like the Everglades rat snakes I used to have. She's lookin' good, Dave.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I love her vivid high-energy orange color- much like the Everglades rat snakes I used to have. She's lookin' good, Dave.

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Thank you, Boger. In some light she's more orange/bright, but the motley pattern doesn't come through. This was a nice balance.

Fantastic colour on her [emoji7][emoji7][emoji106][emoji106]

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk

Laundry day, but got a few shots of Solana, who shed last week.

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And you even bought an electrical cord to match...;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

And you even bought an electrical cord to match...;)

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DING, DING, DING! We have a winner! You're the next contestant on What Item Looks Like the Snake?

I was waiting to see if anyone noticed that. Good eye, Bogertophis!

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Originally Posted by dakski

DING, DING, DING! We have a winner! You're the next contestant on What Item Looks Like the Snake?

I was waiting to see if anyone noticed that. Good eye, Bogertophis!

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:rofl: I have a couple cords in that color too- it's a great color for both cords AND snakes. :D (And I never plug in the wrong one...)

Solana is doing great. I had her out the other day and Katie held her while I cleaned her tank.

Katie took some selfies while I was busy with snake poop and sent them to me. I thought this was the best one although it doesn't do a great job of capturing Solana's colors.

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Solana shed tonight, but needed a little help, which isn't abnormal for her. I gave her a good soak for about 1/2 hour and the shed went easy peasy.

Having said that, what a crap show. She'd sprayed the side of her tank and got it under her paper also. Then, about 5 minutes after putting her in the warmish (80F) water, she went again. I had to take her out, clean the container she was in, then put her back to soak for another 25 minutes or so.

Nothing like scrubbing tank walls and corners!

She's worth it.

She and I were both pretty stressed, so I didn't take pics tonight. I'll get some in the next few days.

I should note that I put a much bigger water bowl in her tank about a shed or two ago. It seems to have helped both her general skin condition but also her shedding. She needed help tonight, but it came off easier than normal and she'd gotten her head and neck off pretty clean. The body is easy to help with when she gets a good soak. Not so much head and neck. I was happy that all that came off easily and on her own.

From what I've heard and seen, the scaleless corns really benefit from higher humidity than a scaled corn needs.

At least she got it done- it does sound like it was pretty messy though- some days are just like that. :P

As promised, post-shed pics of Solana.

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I sure do love orange snakes! She's glowing nicely these days.

Solana needs your thoughts and prayers.

Sunday I went to change her water and check on her for feeding Monday.

She had laid 9 eggs, but clearly had some left in her - probably 3-4. To be clear, Solana has never met another snake and certainly never mated with one. All the eggs appear to be slugs.

I gave her a day to see if they would come out and they didn't. I called the vet and spend the next two days massaging and palpitating her, and making her move/exercise, which she didn't want to do. None of that helped.

The vet said to bring her in today. It doesn't look good. They still have her. They are soaking her, giving her calcium (to help get the eggs to come out on their own), antibiotics, and pain meds. If she hasn't passed them by Friday morning, they will do an ultrasound to see where she is at and what the eggs/uterus, etc. look like. If possible, they will either crush the eggs or drain the eggs to see if she can pass them.

If that doesn't work, surgery is an option, but I won't do it. Not fair to her, IMO, and the prognosis at the point isn't good either.

I am very upset at the prospect of losing her and that she's in so much pain and discomfort right now.

Given that I've never bred her, this is a huge surprise. I'll preemptively say that there's nothing I could have done to prevent this and the vet feels I am acting appropriately and in a timely manner. In case anyone else runs into this.

Anyway, please keep her in your thoughts and prayers and I'll advise one way or another soon.

It's been a rough week. Katie's grandfather passed yesterday. So lots going on. Please forgive me if I do not update immediately. Also, to be clear, I probably won't know anything until Friday at the earliest.

My family's thoughts and prayers are with you and Katie.

Sorry, I'm late to seeing your post, Dave. I'm sorry to hear of Katie's grandfather, & for sure, Solana is in my thoughts today.

In case you've forgotten, I have many times now experienced female snakes that are determined to reproduce without a male influence of any kind. Suffice to say I can relate to what a shock that is.

In the past I had a rosy boa that produced both slugs & a live baby that lived for about 8 mos. before passing from defects. That's the ONLY reason I got into breeding rosy boas: with a mate, she produced very healthy offspring for 5 years out of the 11 years since she was turned over to me, & lived to her mid-20's. Without a mate, she would likely have died years many earlier, since she was already up in years w/ very poor muscle tone from her many years of poor care & malnourishment in a museum. Rosy boas have live babies that cooperate in "leaving home", whereas slugs take serious effort to expel, especially for an older snake like she was, with poor muscle tone. Goes without saying that with proper care & adequate warmth under my care, she ate extremely well for me & thereafter produced only big healthy "snap-dragons" instead of slugs. I agonized over the decision to give her a mate at the time, but in the end, it was the right decision.

And then there's my 2 large "Florida" rat snakes (now 15 years old- a c/b blend of Yellow, Gulf Hammock, & Everglades) that every summer produce huge double clutches of eggs without ever having mated (I got them when they were a year & a half old, btw), & a number of their eggs always appear viable- which I proved when I incubated them in 2019 & 3 of them hatched out, very viable indeed. I still have 2 of those 3 snakes that are doing well (one had to be euth'd last year due to spinal defect that finally became a problem). These adult females are now "old" (at age 15), & they've been laying all these slugs/eggs every year for about 7 years now- :weirdface Every year I worry about them, but there's nothing I can do.

So parthenogenesis is always both a risk & a delight when you keep female snakes- & unfortunately there's the risk of egg-binding too. I once lost a very nice young Caif. king to egg-binding- I had no idea she even had eggs- it wasn't obvious at all. I also had a Trans Pecos rat snake that had a SUCCESSFUL "spay" surgery to cure an ectopic pregnancy. She recovered nicely, by the way. But I sure wish snakes came with an "off" switch. ;)

Are these last eggs noticeably larger than the ones she was able to expel? I've played "midwife" to a bull snake that needed some help to push out one unusually large egg, poor snake- at that point she was getting tired & it was very fortunate that I was able to help her with that one without a surgical intervention or aspiration. As you're probably aware, aspiration works but with a needle going thru the abdominal wall, then there's a risk of infection.

Keeping good thoughts for your pretty Solana. :please:

Such beautiful snakes.

I hope that she gets better soon ^^

Hey dakski- how is Solana doing? Any luck getting the rest of the eggs out? Poor little snake- there's no way I know of to prevent this- there wasn't anything you could have done differently, it just happens with some female snakes. It's nature's way of trying every trick in the book to perpetuate the species, regardless of the individual. I sure hope she's alright.

Things have been a little crazy.

Solana is still at vet. She's been being soaked and getting pain meds and antibiotics.

Ultrasound yesterday was mixed. The eggs are stuck together and maybe to her as well, that is unclear. She was very constipated, but the vet was able to drain the eggs a bunch. Not completely, but a lot. That should allow her to go to the bathroom.

The swelling today is a little better and that could be good, but she hasn't passed the eggs. Small chance she can absorb some or all of them, but that's unclear as well.

Just a waiting game now.

I pick her up Monday morning and she will need soaking, antibiotics (inter muscular injections), and pain meds. Only time will tell how she does or if she makes it. I am trying not keep my expectations metered.

I want her to be fine, but also understand, that's a lower probability than the opposite.

Next Friday, she will probably get another ultrasound, especially if the eggs haven't passed. We will re-evaluate then.

Thank you all for the thoughts, prayers, and concern.

I will do my best to keep you posted.

I'm sorry to hear things are so rough right now for you and your family. I'm glad Solana got care ASAP and hopefully she can make it through this okay. I've had virgin corns lay eggs before too, and it's never a nice surprise. Best of luck on all fronts.

I am picking Solana up from the vet this afternoon. He says she is very stressed and would benefit being home.

Overall, good news, although she's not out of the woods yet.

She passed one of the eggs. That's good.

She's also going into shed/started shedding (sometimes she does that in pieces - at least to start - and that's what's happening now). The shed will take energy, but also should boost her immune system and is a good sign.

That's all I know now. I'll keep everyone posted.

Please continue good wishes, thoughts, and prayers for her.

Thank you.

That's all pretty hopeful, at least. Shedding will get her to move her body around more too. Fingers crossed! Eggs can be such a pain!

Good news, sort of bad news, and eh news.

First, on my way to the vet, Solana passed the remaining two eggs! I got there and the vet held out his hand and showed me the eggs/good news.

This is huge. She wasted after passing the eggs as well. So she's not blocked up, is much less swollen, and the prognosis has dramatically improved.

Secondly, the sort of bad news. the vet thinks she is septic, but he believes she is on the right antibiotics to fight that and she is showing signs of improvement. Like other things in snakes/reptiles, sepsis moves slowly and the vet is very optimistic about her making it through that.

Third, the eh news. Her shed is really bad and she has some scarring under the skin - likely from the sepsis. The vet believes she will have some permanent scarring on her body/skin. I told him, "I couldn't care less as long as it's only visual and not hurting her." He said it would be predominantly if not completely a visual thing and nothing more. He was relieved to her me say that all I cared about was her well being.

Finally, the plan.

1. Calcium and Pain Killer orally for the next 3 days.

2. 5 more doses of antibiotics - once every 3 days with her first dose with me tomorrow. These are given in the muscle (inter muscular injections). She has had two doses already.

3. Soak her and keep her tank humid to try to help with her shed. Her mouth and most of her head hasn't shed. Same with much her of her body except for some pieces. Not ideal.

4. Feed her ASAP after shed and she will eat.

5. To try to prevent this in the future: No brumation (which I do not have her do anyway) and move her so her tank isn't right above Figment (male corn snake). To be clear. There is a very small probability that is what caused or encouraged her to lay eggs. However, it cannot hurt. So I plan to move them farther apart.

6. Bring her in for a checkup/followup in 2-3 weeks unless things are worse.

The vet is shocked. He was not optimistic and said he didn't tell me how worried he was when I dropped her off and then when she didn't pass the eggs quickly. He feels the prognosis is quite good now.

Solana is resting comfortably in her favorite hide right now and getting some much needed rest and hopefully will shed ASAP.



Katie's been away for 11 days and comes back tomorrow. Just in time to help with meds for Solana. So that's good.

Below are pics of Solana when she laid eggs and had the three stuck and them a few from today. I will keep everyone posted. So relieved for good news, but she can still use thoughts and prayers, so keep them coming.

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And today.

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Hey, that's WONDERFUL news! Let's hope she's not septic, or if she is- it's being treated with the right stuff so she fully recovers. But still, this beats her initial prognosis by a few miles.

I agree that it would be best not to have her inhaling a male corn snake's pheromones. Who knows? And take down all her male corn snake "cheese-cake" posters too. :D But also, you might want to feed her a bit on the light side, once she recovers- as some think well-fed snakes are more likely to pull these stunts (ie. produce eggs)? Just food for thought.

Solana appears to be doing better. We stopped the pain meds and calcium and she has pooped and passed urates since.

She is shedding in pieces, but the soaking and moist tank (part of the time) is helping and yesterday we helped her get the shed off her head and neck including eyelids. The soaks made that easy and painless.

She has strength, but is calm and docile, like she normally is. Her color is good - probably better - and we are continuing the antibiotics as prescribed. Both Solana and Katie (the injector - I hold) are becoming pros at those.

The next big hurdle after shed, is getting her to eat. Once that happens, I'll feel pretty good about the prognosis. Additionally, once she eats and is done with antibiotics, I will move either her or Figment (male corn).

Not sure how I am going to switch up the tanks yet, but I'll figure it out. Probably move Shayna (BP) down and Figment up to the top spot, where Shayna is now (Figgie is at the bottom of the stack of 4X2's).

Shayna is still in her winter fast (which she started late) and I don't want to mover her until she has eaten again.

I'll keep everyone posted.

That's GREAT news! Solana may not realize it, but she picked an awfully good owner who also picked some awfully good medical help. May she continue to improve, many thanks to you & Katie.

First, thank you Bogertophis for the kind words.

Secondly, Solana has shed, but still has some residual scarring/scabbing on some areas. You can see in the pics below.

She's still getting the antibiotics and has a vet checkup in about 10-14 days. Overall it's a vast improvement. She's back to her docile self and doesn't seem to be in pain or discomfort.

Additionally, SHE ATE TONIGHT. I gave her an adult mouse, but on the smaller side. She gobbled it right down. I couldn't be happier. She's definitely on the mend on and hopefully gets some energy from the meal.

I'll let everyone know what the vet says, and I'll check in if anything changes, but overall extremely happy.

Thank you all for the thoughts, prayers, and well wishes. Solana needed them.

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What a great update! A little scabbing or scarring? "No big deal" after what she just got through. Way to GO, Solana!

Solana got her last antibiotic injection today. Overall, she's doing great. As reported, she ate last week and then had, what seemed like, fairly normal waste.

She's calmed down a ton. She doesn't seem agitated, in pain, stressed, etc. She's back to her calm and docile self. She hasn't even sweat the last few injections.

She is going into shed again. I am not particularly worried because she has been under duress and has noticeable marks/scabbing/irritation on her body/skin. I think her body is telling her, "shed, we need to get that off and heal."

Her eyes are clouded over now, but as soon as they clear, I will be keeping the tank pretty humid and soaking her as well. I want a good shed.

I'll keep everyone updated.

Aw, I'm glad she's done with injections now, poor snakey! It's not like she has much padding on her either. Sounds like she's making a GREAT recovery, thanks to you & Katie & your vet.

Solana shed. She has some scarring, but it's not raised and doesn't seem to bother her. She's doing great otherwise. She ate tonight and is back to her calm, docile, not in pain self. Her color is vibrant as well. I think things are looking good.

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Be sure to tell her NOT to do that again! :colbert: :D