Input on multiple snakes in one tank.

I already have taken that class. It was cool...would have been better if the teacher had known HOW to teach. :rolleyes:

This topic has been done to death, but valid points are always brought up.

No, as far as anyone knows there is no scientific proof against housing snakes together.
Yes, it is a personal choice whether or not to do so.
Yes, MOST snake keepers choose to house their snakes separately for many reasons.
No, the OP is not forced to separate his snakes. No one is.

The reasons for housing separately are mostly for the peace of mind of the keeper. Separate snakes mean easier record keeping of defecations, sheds, feedings, refusals, and the like. It also means less Chance of having to take multiple snakes to the vet if one gets sick, and it means the ability to control breeding. :)
I am sure there are many snake keepers who have housed multiple snakes together and had no problems...even successes. But that is beside the point. The people who house separately, and those who house together, do so because it works well for them and their snakes.

Bottom line: for new snake owners who don't know the little details and the ins and outs of snake keeping, it is most often best for their snakes to be housed separately while they learn.

This should be a sticky. >.>

Regardless of any evidence in favor or against housing bp's together, are you willing to risk the potential consequences in doing? These are wild animals, and no matter how much we think we know our snakes, they can react in ways we don't expect.

Just the fact that vet bills are doubled with housing snakes together turns me off completely to the idea. You may think you're saving some money by only setting up one enclosure. Each person here has already shelled out enough cash on just bp to maintain it's husbandry and needs. I know I sure have, so why skimp on a basic need?

However, if you believe that the pros outweight the cons, go ahead. But that will be the first thing considered as a reason when a thread pops up here about a bp going off feed or being aggressive. The first thing members here ask in a thread like that are the details of the husbandry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stargazer

Have fun at class!! I'll be doing this first hand.. LAB RATS!!What a joke...

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Your treatment of your animals in a 'study' and seeing a possibly dangerous fight amongst the animals and saying for the sake of the 'study' says they are virtually your test subjects and you don't care if they injure each other in the process.
In my opinion, it is on the edge of abuse. Also, what did you do with all of those eggs you received? How big was the female when she laid?

I keep seeing the same few things mentioned over and over.

It's easier to keep them separately.

If one poops or regurges, you won't know which one it is.

It's easier.

IF you don't keep them separately because it's cheaper to keep them together, you don't deserve to have them and, in fact should not have them at all.

It's easier.

If one gets sick, they all will. Can you afford the bill?

It's easier.

If one gets sick is it not likely that the others housed separately have exactly the same chance of getting sick as the ill snake? If they are kept identically, how can you say only one will get sick? How does one get sick to begin with and why would ONLY one get sick even if they were housed separately? Seems to me there's the same chance of all of them getting sick as just one, whether housed together or not once you've got something in your snakes, it's there for groups as well as singles.

The easy part comes up most often. So what some of you seem to be saying is that if someone else doesn't want to do it the way you think it should be done, whether it is because they can't afford more than one set up or just don't want to make one, which frankly is not only no ones business but who the bloody hell are you folks passing judgement on people for not wanting to spend as much as you? Mighty white of you ain't it?

Maybe it's just me, but when one of my snakes poops, I can tell. If one of mine pukes up a meal, I know which one it is. I actually can tell my snakes apart. Maybe those of you who couldn't tell which of several had pooped or which one had regurged (not even getting into WHY it regurged) maybe the fault lies with you for not being able to tell. I mean if I can do it, and many many of you have called me an idiot, to be kind, and if you can't, again, perhaps the fault is closer to home than you want to look.

One final thing. Going back the the who in the bloody hell do some of you think you are thing; DESERVE? Are you serious? You're going to post, here, in public, that YOU get to decide who DESERVES to have ball pythons and who doesn't?

Let me just LOL right here and now.

Wow, the high horses really came in this afternoon. Good thing I've got an industrial size shovel and some extra time.

This is a mess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I keep seeing the same few things mentioned over and over.

It's easier to keep them separately.

If one poops or regurges, you won't know which one it is.

It's easier.

IF you don't keep them separately because it's cheaper to keep them together, you don't deserve to have them and, in fact should not have them at all.

It's easier.

If one gets sick, they all will. Can you afford the bill?

It's easier.

If one gets sick is it not likely that the others housed separately have exactly the same chance of getting sick as the ill snake? If they are kept identically, how can you say only one will get sick? How does one get sick to begin with and why would ONLY one get sick even if they were housed separately? Seems to me there's the same chance of all of them getting sick as just one, whether housed together or not once you've got something in your snakes, it's there for groups as well as singles.

The easy part comes up most often. So what some of you seem to be saying is that if someone else doesn't want to do it the way you think it should be done, whether it is because they can't afford more than one set up or just don't want to make one, which frankly is not only no ones business but who the bloody hell are you folks passing judgement on people for not wanting to spend as much as you? Mighty white of you ain't it?

Maybe it's just me, but when one of my snakes poops, I can tell. If one of mine pukes up a meal, I know which one it is. I actually can tell my snakes apart. Maybe those of you who couldn't tell which of several had pooped or which one had regurged (not even getting into WHY it regurged) maybe the fault lies with you for not being able to tell. I mean if I can do it, and many many of you have called me an idiot, to be kind, and if you can't, again, perhaps the fault is closer to home than you want to look.

One final thing. Going back the the who in the bloody hell do some of you think you are thing; DESERVE? Are you serious? You're going to post, here, in public, that YOU get to decide who DESERVES to have ball pythons and who doesn't?

Let me just LOL right here and now.

Wow, the high horses really came in this afternoon. Good thing I've got an industrial size shovel and some extra time.

This is a mess.

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Heck, you couldn't even hint that you kept snakes around here two years ago without being hit with some extreme judgement.

I was searching for a thread that was bouncing around a few years ago - if memory serves - it was the one where Jack Spirko made an attempt to point out that sometimes the forum dogma was wrong. The main gist was that housing two snakes together was a generally accepted practice outside of this little group. Boy did he get slammed...........and ridiculed...........

Didn't find it - maybe it got QTd or deleted - maybe someone will remember it and post a link.

I bring it up only in the context that people are now at least able to discuss the issue without being told they are idiots.

This thread is ridiculous. Multiple Ball Pythons should not be hosed together. There are lots of reasons. The biggest issue I see here is breeding. You have a small female that could get bred and suffer because of it. Your bigger female might be ok being bred but, are you ready for eggs? The issues with housing multiple ball pythons together has been beat TO DEATH. Arguments to the contrary fall into two categories. Those who look at the snakes with there mammalian brains and say "oh they look happy" and those that those that are just plain big headed ignorant. If you want to keep your snakes together feel free. If you have any issues with your snakes this forum and anyone in the know will start with "Seperate the snakes".

One last thing. If you want scientific proof then start thinking like a scientist.

Understand that your situation is not the rule, understand that you are wrong until you prove you are right. Sure the accepted wisdom could be wrong, I will not deny the possibility. The burden of proof is on you though. Until you show otherwise, multiple ball pythons should not be housed together. One last time, 4 balls in a tank is not proof that the accepted wisdom is wrong.

Always love this topic. It seems as though almost everyone states as a fact that it is never OK to house BP's together because it is simply against the "rules"... Yet some of the hobby's biggest names have been quoted as saying you can in fact keep ball pythons together. (Dave and Tracey Barker.) Although they did point out that they don't recommend it because it can create some problems (especially for the beginner keeper) that might not happen if kept individually.

I have successfully kept BP's together in the past without issue. It is how I started. I have since separated them just because it is easier for me... Point is don't stand on a soap box and declare that anyone keeping snakes together is wrong or mistreating their animals because this simply isn't necessarily true.

I think it is funny that people always use one of three things to support the idea that BP's must be kept separate,

1.) you never know who poops, who sheds, who regurgitates....

It doesn't take a degree in science to notice when a snake poops. This is true with both the physical look of the snake, and its behavior. But really, who cares if / when a snake poops? as long as you know the snake is parasite free to start with, why does it matter? I have some snakes that regularly poop once a week. I have others that will regularly go a month or two without pooping. I never keep track of when a snake poops any more... it doesn't matter. What are you trying to identify? loose poop? A perfectly healthy snake will still sometimes have a looser stool then other times. as long as you know they are parasite free to start with, your good. with ALL my snakes, I have only had one rodent get spit back up, and that was in the beginning when I fed too big of a meal. But come on, I would think even for a beginner, if you fed the snakes a properly sized meal, it wouldn't be too hard to tell what one puked.

2.) If one snake gets sick they will all get sick....

If your husbandry is correct, and all animals have had proper quarantine and are parasite free, how does this happen? What sickness will one snake mysteriously get that will spread to its cage mates? Please name some specific "sicknesses" that this will happen. Any such sickness that I could think of would also jump from tub to tub in a rack system. So what is the basis of this argument?

3.) If one snake lays on top of another it is domination... it is all bad...

I too would love to see the scientific proof on this. While I do think it is true to a certain extent, I don't think it is nearly as bad as most make it out to be. Sure the snakes might argue over who gets the most comfortable spot, but as long as the husbandry is spot on the snakes will be fine even if they are NOT on the most comfortable spot. It is not a case of one snake hurting or emotionally traumatizing the other snake as many of you seem to think. When I kept my balls together (two females of the same age and size) they would always be on top of one another. They also had access to the same exact hides, temperatures, water, and were fed the same size rodent on the same day every week. As we all know they thermoregulate. Seems simple enough to me. I feed them, they get a full belly, so they both head over to the warm hide and hang for a day or two... then they both go over to the cool side. then they both ate again consistently every week. So please tell me why everyone is so quick to assume this dramatic, dominating power struggle? If this were true, then in the wild, wouldn't the dominated snake leave the burrow to find "peace" somewhere else?

just my 2 cents for what it's worth :D

Just some additional info that the Barkers shared that would benefit the OP..

It generally is NOT a good idea to keep 2 males together because they can fight. (quoting the barkers here, I have never kept males together and have no first had experience with this)

If Ball pythons are kept together, If they are not all adults, they should be about the same size as one another. (again, something the Barkers said... not sure what they were basing this on)

i've seen and heard of cases where a small or baby snake was hurt or killed by an adult accidently. the body weight can trap a baby in the water bowl and result in drowning, i've seen one broken spine incident, and have heard of other mishaps.

perhaps this is what they mean by appropriate sized cagemates?