New Balls

Did Josh tell you that this female was new to him when he threw her in? If so, did you not feel due to her being new to him that you should not be introducing males to her until you were certain she was well?

Also, after she had the runny stool and you removed the pastel, why didn't you get her tested for parasites before putting the pin with her, considering runny stools aren't normal?

Just trying to understand the big picture.

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Originally Posted by jnjreptiles

Good luck to you all with your breedings this year, this is the last time we are posting on here, as no matter what we say or do we cannot win.

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So your not going to contribute to our community, but keep the advertising banner to have us as customers?....not cool.

No Josh told me he was putting the female in the package for the sole purpose of me getting to breed this year. If he had told me the female hadn't eaten and he didn't know if she was ok I wouldn't have put anything in with her. But again that was my bad.

And I put the pin in with her after she had one bad bowel movement, I didn't think one was bad and I thought the reason she wasn't eating was because of breeding season. I know I have some blame here also. But I was told "I'll throw this female in so you can get to breeding this season." In my rush I did do some risky things, but if the female had been well none of this would have happened in the first place.

Me and Josh have talked about this and he is going to start keeping unknown females 2 or 3 weeks and treat them all with panacur. Thats all I really wanted to happen, that and to let people know so it doesn't happen to them. Like I said in my last post I'll be more careful in who I buy from now. Don't always go the cheaper route. And again thanks to everyone on this board, the info here is really good.

Alan

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Originally Posted by grunt_11b

No Josh told me he was putting the female in the package for the sole purpose of me getting to breed this year. If he had told me the female hadn't eaten and he didn't know if she was ok I wouldn't have put anything in with her. But again that was my bad.

And I put the pin in with her after she had one bad bowel movement, I didn't think one was bad and I thought the reason she wasn't eating was because of breeding season. I know I have some blame here also. But I was told "I'll throw this female in so you can get to breeding this season." In my rush I did do some risky things, but if the female had been well none of this would have happened in the first place.

Me and Josh have talked about this and he is going to start keeping unknown females 2 or 3 weeks and treat them all with panacur. Thats all I really wanted to happen, that and to let people know so it doesn't happen to them. Like I said in my last post I'll be more careful in who I buy from now. Don't always go the cheaper route. And again thanks to everyone on this board, the info here is really good.

Alan

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Glad to see you guys worked something out Alan!:gj:

And dont blame yourself for any of this. Your NEW to it just like other people!

And Josh, Stand up statements Man! just make sure you follow them!!

I stand by my statements 110%, anything we can to to help our animals thrive and have our clients secede we will do.

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Originally Posted by jnjreptiles

I stand by my statements 110%, anything we can to to help our animals thrive and have our clients secede we will do.

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I find it funny that you spelled "succeed" that way.

Secede: means Latin secedere, from sed-, se- apart (from sed, se without) + cedere to go and to withdraw from an organization (as a religious communion or political party or federation) "

So your helping your clients go apart from your company?

I was told I needed to clear something up. I may not have made it clear but I didn't know that the female had only been with Josh for a week. He didn't disclose this info to me. If he had I would not have introduced a male into her tub. I just wanted to clarify that for everyone.

Thanks
Alan

Alan,

I guess you are a better man then me. If he had offered to pay 1/2 of my vet bill after causing such a problem, I would have flipped! I might consider half of a vet bill if he gave me have of my 3 grand back! Why wouldn't 100% of the vet bill be paid?

I don't think this is your fault at all Alan. If I were new, and wanted to get into breeding... and spent 3grand on a slew of snakes.... and the breeder who I trust throws in a female for free specificly so I can get to breeding right away, I would not think twice about trying to breed right away! (of course I know better then that now!)

Rule of thumb: the newbee will do what the breeder says is OK. This breeder did NOT have the animals best interest in mind. They ONLY had the dollar in mind.

Disclaimer: No offense to the people that provide this site! It is a valuable resource and I love it.... I think everyone here rocks!!!

BUT:

Funny how this site... who's founding members often preach NOT to get imported Balls, allow one of the biggest importers to be one of the 4 companies constantly advertised on the site...

Food for thought.


Mike

Mike,

I'm not sure where you said we preach not to get imported animals. Some of my most prized snakes are captive hatched animals who were imported as babies.

I'm not sure where you infer that this adult female was a recent import? I don't recall either Josh or Alan having stated that.

Also, to my knowledge, J&J doesn't breed their own animals, they are distributors, not breeders.

ANY time I purchase an animal, it's up to me as a responsible owner to ask questions before the purchase. And I also would NOT start breeding a new to my collection breedable weight animal until they exited quarantine.

I know these came from the same source, but I like to get my animals settled, get fecal tests done, get them eating well for me.

I believe from what I've read that there's equal culpability on both sides. Josh should have divulged that this was a new animal with no known back ground, but Alan should have probably asked more about the history of the animal. I also would never have put another male with a female that's already had an explosive bowel movement without first getting a clean fecal test on her.

Alan is learning, unfortunately the hard way, just how important it is, especially with the dollars he spent, to ask a lot of questions, and as Sean Bradley likes to say "examine the snake, not the deal". In his excitement to breed this year, he didn't ask the important questions, or take the appropriate action any time you bring in new animals.

J&J has worked out a resolution that Alan is happy with. People make mistakes, and both parties made mistakes. It's how you handle it and learn from it that is the true measure of the type of person you are. I believe that they both have learned, and I see no reason why I wouldn't purchase from J&J if they had an animal that I liked (and I really like the blurry they have up, actually) - but I'd also query him on their back ground and quarantine and get fecal tests done.

I don't see any evidence of them being a bad guy, just someone who probably should have communicated with an eager buyer a little bit better. If 1/2 the vet costs is amenable to Alan, I don't see why any of us should be outraged about the agreement they came to.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Mike,

I'm not sure where you said we preach not to get imported animals. Some of my most prized snakes are captive hatched animals who were imported as babies.

I'm not sure where you infer that this adult female was a recent import? I don't recall either Josh or Alan having stated that.

Also, to my knowledge, J&J doesn't breed their own animals, they are distributors, not breeders.

ANY time I purchase an animal, it's up to me as a responsible owner to ask questions before the purchase. And I also would NOT start breeding a new to my collection breedable weight animal until they exited quarantine.

I know these came from the same source, but I like to get my animals settled, get fecal tests done, get them eating well for me.

I believe from what I've read that there's equal culpability on both sides. Josh should have divulged that this was a new animal with no known back ground, but Alan should have probably asked more about the history of the animal. I also would never have put another male with a female that's already had an explosive bowel movement without first getting a clean fecal test on her.

Alan is learning, unfortunately the hard way, just how important it is, especially with the dollars he spent, to ask a lot of questions, and as Sean Bradley likes to say "examine the snake, not the deal". In his excitement to breed this year, he didn't ask the important questions, or take the appropriate action any time you bring in new animals.

J&J has worked out a resolution that Alan is happy with. People make mistakes, and both parties made mistakes. It's how you handle it and learn from it that is the true measure of the type of person you are. I believe that they both have learned, and I see no reason why I wouldn't purchase from J&J if they had an animal that I liked (and I really like the blurry they have up, actually) - but I'd also query him on their back ground and quarantine and get fecal tests done.

I don't see any evidence of them being a bad guy, just someone who probably should have communicated with an eager buyer a little bit better. If 1/2 the vet costs is amenable to Alan, I don't see why any of us should be outraged about the agreement they came to.

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Thank you for that well thought out well explained post.
We are defiantly taking this as a learning experience.