superball<3

Now that is one bad looking snake there. Are they easy to get to breed together?

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

Actually, there's no such thing as 100%. What if a blood bred to a ball and over the generations the offspring bred back to other balls. At what point would the traits of the blood no longer be recognizable? So if a WC was actually the decendant of a hybrid... IT will also be a cross, even if not a recognizable one.

It would be HIGHLY UNLIKELY that a blood and a ball would meet in the wild in Africa, breed and hatch viable young that went on to breed back to balls for several generations. And if it did happen, that's nature, and there's nothing controversial that any human did to mess with a gene pool.

The canine industry didn't suddenly have an official organization... it began by people having the same qualms as you and putting in a LOT of effort to start an accepted "overseer" of purebreds.

Sure, but it exists, and they are strict. I have much more faith buying a purebred dog w/ AKC pedigree papers than an amelanistic corn snake with papers.

Now, one thing is clear, TSE was and is not trustworthy... whether or not they were trusted is more subjective. I didn't trust them, because their prices screamed "We are a snake mill." Other people chose to trust them... that's thier thing.

But look how easy it is to forge paperwork in the reptile community.

However, honestly, do you think Ralph, Greg, Kara and Kevin or any of the other big boys are going to even unknowingly sell a snake for something it isn't? If so... well there's nothing that's going to convince you. I personally don't. Hybrids are still in the early stages, and once they become more prolific, it's only going to mean reputation means MORE in this business. And sorry, but I don't think any of them... or even the medium sized breeders like Adam are going to risk their entire reputation (and, therefore, their business) on buying a questionable animal from a questionable seller.

I don't think that any of these people would do anything questionable, but as Adam has said w/the spiders. A lot of big breeders at first, and for quite some time, claimed that their spiders had absolutely no neurological disorders, even when most of them probably knew better. Whether spiders were originally not outcrossed from the first import, to the point that every spider is now stuck with this gene, or if it is just part of being a spider, the fact remains that breeders large and small knew that there was something not quite right about the spiders they were breeding and producing. But many of them continued to produce and sell spiders while claiming that they had a group that didn't have the defect. I bought one of these last year, and it wobbles.

I'm saying Spiders aren't a good example... they are still ball pythons so comparing them to hybrids is apples and oranges. The fact that they have a genetic abnormality isn't going to change that... and a GOOD breeder isn't going to sell a really spinny Spider.

I think I understand what we're talking about now. I was comparing how a lot of spiders were misrepresented, even by reputable breeders. Even if a breeder bought a pair that didn't visabally wobble, the gene is there forever, just like hybrid offspring are crosses for several generations, and never really pure. Basically, if breeders were buying, breeding and selling spiders while either believing or just claiming that the defect wasn't an issue with their stock, how can we be sure that desendants of hybrids won't find theie way into collections unknowingly? It's not important to everyone, but it's very important for some people. That said, hybrids worry me.

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EDIT: If I mis quoted Adam in any way let me know so a mod can edit my post.

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Originally Posted by sassygirl221983

Now that is one bad looking snake there. Are they easy to get to breed together?

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No, it's hard to get them to successfully breed and produce offspring. That's why even if a blood wondered over to Ghana :rolleye2: , it's not likely there would ever be viable offspring produced in the wild :D

i dont see why they would be called "superballs" though.

they should be called blood balls.

balls and blood...all a guy needs in life:D

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Originally Posted by Snakeman

i dont see why they would be called "superballs" though.

they should be called blood balls.

balls and blood...all a guy needs in life:D

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:rockon: Excellent point. Perfect timing for a little comic relief.

Mendel's balls & Justin,
As we've all learned from several similar forum threads, none of us is likely to change anyone's mind on the ethics of hybridizing reptiles. I do enjoy the discussion and debate, and I hope others will get involved and share their views on the subject. I really do like the looks of a lot of hybrid snakes (excluding the Angolan ball, and the GTP/carpet hybrids, and the superball is cool for a blood, but does nothing for balls imho), and as I said, I would love to play around with king/corn/milk hybrids, as well as GTP/Macklott's or white lip hybrids. I think there are some awesome looking hybrids, and my curiosity and personality fit perfect for someone who should be spending years and years working on hybrid projects. I just feel that the possability and probability of hybrids falling into someone's hands who is either too irresponsible, or simply too ignorant to represent the animals correctly, even if it's far down the genetic line, is too much of a risk to the entire hobby to begin such a project. I wouldn't be able to keep every snake from every generation and I couldn't find the sand to cull any healthy snake, so I stick to my ethics and avoid dealing with hybrids altogether. I wish someone could change my mind, but I understand people's ethics and fears, so at this point I can't ever see myself getting into the hybrid hobby. I just simply fear the future of each species, such as the carpets and corns, and don't want to play a part in jeopardizing the genetic makeup of any species. Maybe if I found a cobra or indigo owner who would take my leftovers for snakefood I'd start a new hobby, but I'd have to freeze them myself to rid my fears, and I don't know if I could do it.