Top Shelf Exotics

Chris and his forum were the first place I found online and someone I thought was trustworthy....very disappointing to follow the BOI thread and wonder if trust was misplaced. The BOI can get nuts and I often get mired in the back and forth mishmash of posts but Chris' responses haven't been very great.

It's been niggling at me...so perhaps someone here knows. What is the timeline of TSE? When did they emerge on the BP scene and when did they start in the het game (hets about 2 or 3 years back I think). How did they get this "sterling" reputation? Were they good and suddenly have gone bad or what is up with that? I haven't seen one response on the BOI that anyone ever met Chris at a show, saw him vend at one, had a beer with him.....doesn't that strike any of you as just plain wierd??? How do you produce all these high end hets without foundation stock and why hasn't anyone come forward to say they sold him that foundation stock? How do you become a big name, everyone trusts you kinda guy when basically it seems you are a ghost in what is really a pretty small community?

I have also wondered how Chris established himself in the ball python market.The only thing it seems a few people have come up with is someone who sold Chris several NORMAL ball python,of which COULD be some of his "Het" balls he sold.It also seems numerous people are either ashamed or embarresed to come forward with there dealings with Chris.Either concerned they might get ridiculed or ganged up on for not speaking up sooner about there dealings with TSE.I know thier has to be numerous people out thier still,and i hope they come forward soon.Maybe this could send a message to others by stating if you scam people this WILL happen to you also.

Critter auctions is hosting an auction to raise funds for legal action against TSE.



http://critterauction.com/auction/viewnew.php?id=81

Participation, either through donations of items for auction or bidding - I am sure would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

How do you produce all these high end hets without foundation stock and why hasn't anyone come forward to say they sold him that foundation stock?

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from what i have gathered (and i may be wrong here so someone please correct me if that is the case) he is not a breeder but a dealer. he simply resells animals that he purchases from other sources. this explains why he would suddenly run out of stock--if he hasn't been able to purchase any then he has none to sell or ship out to those who have alread paid.

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Originally Posted by mlededee

from what i have gathered (and i may be wrong here so someone please correct me if that is the case) he is not a breeder but a dealer. he simply resells animals that he purchases from other sources. this explains why he would suddenly run out of stock--if he hasn't been able to purchase any then he has none to sell or ship out to those who have alread paid.

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Not if you believe Chris. He claims that he produces all his own BP morphs and hets. That is directly from his mouth.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I have also wondered how Chris established himself in the ball python market.

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For whatever it's worth, I don't think that any of the "big guys/gals" in the ball python market ever considered Chris "established". I think he was generally considered a jobber reselling snakes at 25% below market value.

It was the "deal seekers" that gave him overnight credibility.

-adam

Would be wierd to be a re-seller with a stated TOS that if you sell the het you buy from him any guarantee of genetics is null and void (which is my very basic understanding of how Chris handled this). So basically if he was buying real hets the seller guarantees the genetics, Chris sells it to me guaranteeing the genetics but god forbid I sell it to you Emily or to Jamie because all of a sudden this 100% het just became a normal due to a refusal to back the stated genetics???? Something sure doesn't add up with that at least not in my lil ole mind or perhaps I'm missing something?

My understanding was like Jamie's - that Chris stated the hets were produced by him therefore he must have had the foundation stock to breed from and had to have purchased them from somebody right? There's also concerns about an alleged t-stat malfunction that killed a large number (and cash dollar) of his stock awhile back...guess this is where the missing breeders went?

Whatever has happened this is a black eye for TSE and sadly I'm seeing posts that indicate it's hurting how people feel about ordering online or getting into ball python morphs, so in the end that hurts us all.

I still don't get how he built a reputation so solid and strong and can't figure out a timeline that makes any sense to me.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Whatever has happened this is a black eye for TSE

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Black eye? ... He allegedly ripped people of for tens of thousands of dollars and has no money to refund anyone ... not black eye ... TSE is done ... forever.

-adam

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Chris and his forum were the first place I found online and someone I thought was trustworthy....very disappointing to follow the BOI thread and wonder if trust was misplaced. The BOI can get nuts and I often get mired in the back and forth mishmash of posts but Chris' responses haven't been very great.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

It's been niggling at me...so perhaps someone here knows. What is the timeline of TSE? When did they emerge on the BP scene and when did they start in the het game (hets about 2 or 3 years back I think).

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Roughly 2 1/2 years I believe.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

How did they get this "sterling" reputation? Were they good and suddenly have gone bad or what is up with that?

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That's the $64,000 question. I have spoken to one major breeder who never heard of him. A retail pet business with multiple store fronts in his area has never heard of him either, which I find odd because it was my understanding that he did a decent amount of wholesale.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I haven't seen one response on the BOI that anyone ever met Chris at a show, saw him vend at one, had a beer with him.....doesn't that strike any of you as just plain wierd??? How do you produce all these high end hets without foundation stock and why hasn't anyone come forward to say they sold him that foundation stock? How do you become a big name, everyone trusts you kinda guy when basically it seems you are a ghost in what is really a pretty small community?

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No one has come forward to say that they have sold him BP morphs thus far.
One retailer came forward to indicate he has sold Chris 2.0 normals for $220.00. That seems strange for more than one reason.

What's a jobber?