Super Spider and other stuff....

Ah yes... the Ball plague of the 2001's.. I remember reading about that somewhere. It caused spinning in spiders, and thats when the first het pied markers started showing up stapled to their bellies. It was devistating to that one breeder that had all the ghosts in the market too!

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I said there was a breeder who claimed to have a lot of ghosts and that I wonder why there doesn't seem to be more of them now. The plague theory was just a possible explanation. I didn't say I had even heard of it happening to a ghost collection, just that it was one possible explanation. I don't pay much attention to names and probably didn't even know the breeders name at the time. It sounded like he was heavily focused on ghosts around 2000 - 2001 so maybe you can fill us in on the name and where those ghosts are now.

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That's what I figured ... gutless ... You admittedly have spread sheets full of breeding data, you can recall the supposed text of forum posts on topics like het pied markers, caramel albino breeding results, and albino importation numbers in great detail, but you don't pay much attention to names? Well isn't the convenient. How about this ... You are making up yet another lie in a pathetic attempt to cast the ball python morph market in a bad light. You throw a provocative word like "plague" out there with not one shred of evidence to back it up and then squirm when asked for any single detail of reality to corroborate your insinuation. Yell "FIRE" in any crowded movie theaters lately?

Just name the name and maybe you'd have some credibility ... without it, you just look silly.

I guess you don't buy into your own bull about "full disclosure"? Not as easy as it sounds is it? ;)

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

So, are you willing to put the plague concept as a possible explanation for supply problems to rest and say that there aren't large breeders who have lost large parts of their collections?

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You mean your plague concept? The one you made up out of thin air? And what supply problems are you talking about? Why is it that because you can't afford the morphs you want there must be a supply problem? .... I've never had a problem getting my hands on the morphs that I want ... they've always been available in whatever numbers I needed.

But ok, I'll play .... I have no knowledge based in reality of ANY "plague" wiping out ANY ball python collections that would account for any kind of supply problem in the ball python world. Ya know, somehow I have a feeling that even though I made that as clear as I possibly could, you won't be "putting the plague concept to rest" .... you seem to be quite less than honorable.

-adam

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That's what I figured ... gutless ... You admittedly have spread sheets full of breeding data, you can recall the supposed text of forum posts on topics like het pied markers, caramel albino breeding results, and albino importation numbers in great detail, but you don't pay much attention to names? Well isn't the convenient.

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The snakes and figuring out how they work are much more interesting to me than the people. I know the names of very few breeders other than those who have proven out the morphs I'm interested in (and probably not even all the ones who have proven out morphs). With smaller breeders the real names are not often used on the Internet anyway. Just now I followed the link to the Urban Python site for those two imported ball pythons. I didn't spend too much time looking but didn't see a person's name to associate with those snakes.

If I knew the name (real/business/Internet handle) of the breeder who claimed to have the ghost ball python collection (I don't even remember the number, maybe 20-40) four or five years ago why wouldn't I give it? I didn't say that I had heard he had a mass die off, only that it was one possible explanation for why I don't now hear of someone selling tons of ghosts for the prices I think it would take to move that many. I don't care if you think it's negative to say there were a lot or that there aren't now, I'd say the name.

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You mean your plague concept? The one you made up out of thin air?

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Absolutely. That's what I do. I come up with theories to explain the ball python world as I see it and post them on the Internet and use the reaction to gauge how likely the theory is to fit the real world.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Absolutely. That's what I do. I come up with theories to explain the ball python world as I see it and post them on the Internet and use the reaction to gauge how likely the theory is to fit the real world.

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I can't think of anything more irresponsible. People are investing their savings, their hard earned money into ball python morphs with the hopes of making a little extra money for Christmas presents for their kids or to take their families on a vacation each year and you're conducting "experiments" by making up lies about the morphs that they've invested in? You must be proud of yourself.

Earlier in this thread you stated that a good analogy for the ball python market and ball breeders is the stock market and publicly traded companies ... if you were to make up things the way you do on stock market message boards you would be guilty of federal securities fraud and open to civil liable suits.

It's sad that you are allowed to get away with what you do here and else where on the net.

I love ball pythons and I love the ball python market ... I choose to support it every day ... You're a smart guy Randy and if you wanted to, you could do a lot to help and make the market even better for all of the hard working people that have invested their money in order to make a little extra each year ... instead, all you do is try to tear it down and hurt people that don't deserve to be hurt.

-adam

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I can't think of anything more irresponsible. People are investing their savings, their hard earned money into ball python morphs with the hopes of making a little extra money for Christmas presents for their kids or to take their families on a vacation each year and you're conducting "experiments" by making up lies about the morphs that they've invested in? You must be proud of yourself.

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I'd rather help the people who haven't bought yet consider the possibilities than encourage those who have to keep every possibly negative issue secret long enough to pass the buck to bigger and bigger groups of smaller and smaller keepers. Heck, we might even stumble on a solution to a few of the issues with the extra time to discuss them.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I'd rather help the people who haven't bought yet

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How arrogant that you think people looking to invest their money aren't able to do their own due diligence. Must make all the good people out there looking to invest in ball python morphs feel pretty good when they read your threads and see that you think they're so ignorant that you have to ask the questions for them.

The reality is that if those people inquire about morphs from reputable breeders, they will get ALL of the information they need in order to make an educated decision.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

those who have to keep every possibly negative issue secret long enough to pass the buck to bigger and bigger groups of smaller and smaller keepers.

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Who are "those" that you speak of? Lets make with the names Randy? If you're really trying to help as stated above, then help ... if you're not going to name names, then you are just as guilty of keeping secrets and quite the hypocrite.

You still haven't answered my question ... if there are all these secrets out there, and information truly isn't being shared, where are all of the complaints? Where are the posts on the BOI from people that invested in high end ball morphs and were not told about the possible problems? Why are the people that have made investments not raising holy h*ll if they weren't given the entire picture before they handed over their money?

You constantly cite two examples of people that have purchased spider not being informed about possible problems out of how many spiders that have been sold?

If all of these things are really the big problems hidden by the big secrets that you would have people believe exist, where are all of the complaints?

Seems like you're the only one complaining Randy, and as we all may or may not know, you don't even own any morphs.

-adam

Randy, I generally like reading what you have to say, but you have kinda struck a nerve. I get bothered when people speak of something and don't show any proof. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? If you have it, show it. If not, be quiet until you do. If you continue to make guesses of possible secrets, you are no worse than someone that is lying about their animals.

So far, I have seen no documented proof that there are 'SECRETS' like the ones you describe out there and the concept is just not logical to me. You are saying that some breeders lie and withhold information about their snakes in order to make a buck. That would be career suicide. Who would buy from them once the truth finally came out? I want to know WHO ARE YOUR SOURCES that say these 'secrets' exist? Did the top secret spy for the bp police sneak into the breeder's facility and see/record a breeding finding out the information?

I could get a few friends to sign on a forum and play along with some rumor like "did you hear that pinstripes like to slither backwards?" It would be all over the net in a few weeks.

Call up Kevin or Ralph if you have concerns and then tell them sorry for saying that they keep secrets.

How would you feel if someone with NO PROOF was going around saying that you produce genetically flawed animals just because it might be a possibility?

Pinstripes slither backwards??? Wow... I really wanted one of those...too bad!

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

"did you hear that pinstripes like to slither backwards?"

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ROFLMAO, thats a great one Daniel. Sometimes you surprise me. :lmao: :banana:

what's so funny? you'll haven't heard about the "backpins" before?


vaughn