Re: Personal Opinions on Spiders
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jmarshall
First off I am a complete newbie and first time owner. I have never owned nor handled a spider so take this with a grain of salt.. as far as ethics are concerned I feel I have an opinion on the matter tho.. I would ask myself this question. Is there a chance that the neurological problem bothers, causes pain, or otherwise negatively affects the snakes? If the answer is yes, then I would be opposed. They could be completely unaffected but if you answer yes then you believe there is a chance it could lead to a poor quality of life, why do it? Again just my opinion and I am new to this so take from it what you will.
Essentially i I think it comes down to the individual and there beliefs on the issue.
Beliefs and feelings are in no way scientific. I could say the same thing about a normal. Could it be in pain? How would I know? I know by observation of what is normal and how an animal behaves that is uncomfortable. People say I feel this about so and so... Other people decide they believe what someone else feels. It is a downward spiral of misinformation. This is not a ding against you, it is a common problem of this day and age.
I am not providing my feeling on this subject. I am providing the facts as I see them. It is up to the reader to determine if my facts are real and I have enough data to form any sort of conclusion.
Re: Personal Opinions on Spiders
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JodanOrNoDan
Beliefs and feelings are in no way scientific. I could say the same thing about a normal. Could it be in pain? How would I know? I know by observation of what is normal and how an animal behaves that is uncomfortable. People say I feel this about so and so... Other people decide they believe what someone else feels. It is a downward spiral of misinformation. This is not a ding against you, it is a common problem of this day and age.
I am not providing my feeling on this subject. I am providing the facts as I see them. It is up to the reader to determine if my facts are real and I have enough data to form any sort of conclusion.
you are 100% correct that we don’t know for certain and that’s why it is up to each individual to determine their point of view on the matter. I personally have no opinion one way or the other because I have no experience with the morph and haven’t been working with Snakes long enough. I am just saying someone needs to ask themselves if the animal suffers at all.. of that person says yes they shouldn’t breed them.
if someone says to themselves, I HONESTLY don’t believe the animal has an negative affects to their quality of life due to this genetic issue, there is no problems with that person breeding in my eyes. I agree that no one will ever truly KNOW therefore it is highly dependent on the persons opinions and beliefs as to whether the animal experiences anything out of the ordinary.
the entire concept of ethics is solely based on opinions. Scientific facts say the snake has a neurological problem and personal opinions determines if it’s okay to breed that.
Re: Personal Opinions on Spiders
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Sorril
Please link unbiased Sources and Statistics for your Facts. I would be interested in reading them.
This thread itself is probably the most unbiased debate youll find currently, from my research.
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Re: Personal Opinions on Spiders
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Slicercrush
This thread itself is probably the most unbiased debate youll find currently, from my research.
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This guy gets it. It is the reason I am here. This is where the experienced small time breeders hang out, and they are willing to discuss things. There is a lot of knowledge here that is based on real world experience.
Re: Personal Opinions on Spiders
My original opinion on the Spider morph in all its forms were negative based on everything I'd read online .
A few years ago I agreed to have a beautiful Caramel Albino Spider off a young couple moving into a no - pet complex .. I had doubts .
Anyways they were true to their words as he's very calm and friendly , zero wobble and he's my best feeder ..
No issues at all with this lovely guy https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d3f89cb289.png
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Re: Personal Opinions on Spiders
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dboeren
Personally, I would not want to buy or deliberately create an animal with a high probability of a neurological disorder. Note that this applies not only to Spider ball pythons but also to the Jaguar morph in carpet pythons and possibly other species/morphs I don't know about.
That doesn't mean others cannot do it. I agree that both spiders and jags are attractive and I'm not going to condemn others for wanting one, but I'm not comfortable with it for myself.
However, I also feel like someone who breeds morphs with known neurological disorders should be up front with their customers about this because the customer may not be aware of the connection to specific morphs. I would not want a first-time owner to have their heart broken when their animal start exhibiting neurological behaviors that they did not know about in advance. Yes, you can say that they "should have done their homework" but this information is not typically in reptile books or care sheets so even someone that's made a solid effort to get educated could easily not come across this.
When I sell a spider, I ask if the buyer knows what they are getting into. For that matter when I sell any snake I ask if the buyer knows what they are getting into. That said, no matter what I buy I do a little research. I typed "ball python issues" into google. The first thing that came up was OWAL's site where every known issue concerning ball pythons is to be found. Not too hard. If an owner cannot do at least that much they are probably too lazy to own a snake. Before the internet, people actually had to go to the library and do some research. These days the information is pretty much at your fingertips. There is no excuse for not knowing.
Re: Personal Opinions on Spiders
I do think that just due to natural psychological mechanisms, most if not all of those who own a spider will fall prey to cognitive dissonance and justify it one way or another. Not saying they are right or wrong, just saying that their opinion will most likely be biased.
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I personally would never breed one but do see myself adopting one as its still exists in time and space and needs to be taken care of.
Re: Personal Opinions on Spiders
I was looking at a number of different spider combos today at the Richmond show. They are beautiful snakes and none of those I saw displayed showed any wobble. That said, I didn’t handle any either because I wasn’t planning to buy any animals...until I saw the banana pinstripe. :rolleyes: For me personally, I don’t think I would breed a spider morph, because I’d hate to have the potential of culling any offspring. However, I wouldn’t have anything against owning one as a pet. They’re gorgeous.
