Breeding Standards

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

If wine can be rated and priced accordingly a ball python can. I hate all wine, but ironically, i have learned if I really think it tastes like crap it is probably a higher rated wine. Mad Dog, works fine for me. LOL

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I'm not sure I buy into the whole "oh ho ho my wine is fancier then yours so I can charge an exorbitant amount for it". Then again, I don't drink very much and like you when I do it's not wine. Maybe my "palate" just isn't "sophisticated" enough...

Edit: I just googled it and apparently mad dog is wine... either way my point stands

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Originally Posted by kxr

I'm not sure I buy into the whole "oh ho ho my wine is fancier then yours so I can charge an exorbitant amount for it". Then again, I don't drink very much and like you when I do it's not wine. Maybe my "palate" just isn't "sophisticated" enough...

Edit: I just googled it and apparently mad dog is wine... either way my point stands

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Ah, but this is exactly the game we are playing here. I don't like the taste of hypo but I can recognize the perceived value.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Yep. But maybe not mine. :D

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We should play a game just between us and see if we can agree who has the top phantom. And by the way, I have nothing against Ralph or his animals. I got the phantom from him that I did because it is het for lavender.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Ah, but this is exactly the game we are playing here. I don't like the taste of hypo but I can recognize the perceived value.

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I'm not exactly sure how this compares to wine, like I said I'm no wine connoisseur, but I can agree with you in terms of mutations. You may not like hypo while I'm a big fan of hypo. I'm assuming you can see that hypo changes the appearance of the animal and you just don't like that change. I can say the same thing about one of the most popular mutations around, piebald.

Now that I type that out I realize you are trying to make the point that you don't have to like something to judge its quality. My point remains the same, do we consider both high and low white pieds as equally valuable traits and judge them accordingly or is one considered more desirable then the other? What about people who prefer midwhite pieds? There are so many different ways to define quality I think it would be difficult to set a standard for each different variation of each polygenic trait of each ball python mutation. It's not impossible but I think it'd be really messy.


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While this may seem like a good idea you will never get agreement among hobbyists. Some are purist but many like snakes that are "different". Unique animals, even if not genetic, typically go for a premium. What about a paradox? Or a ringer? They wouldn't fit a standard but the demand is huge for such snakes. I know this cinnamon champagne wouldn't fit a standard but I bet if I put her up for sale I'd get more for her not less.

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...Champ%20Fe.jpg

A snake that is "slightly different" that's being sold for more money may not be a seller trying to pull off a fast one. I've always looked for BPs that were slightly different, or very different, and it's often paid off for me. I once bought a super mojave that just looked different to me. After talking with the seller a very well known breeder at the next table told me he's seen super mojaves that looked similar and he didn't think she was special. I bought her anyway as I wanted to produce crystals and I thought she had a neat look. I'm glad I liked her as she hatched this in her first clutch...

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...KingDinker.jpg

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Does any of that take away from the beauty your daughter sees/saw in the animal? Why?

Why not?

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The answer to the first one is a little philosophical so I have no expectation of agreement. I will answer it with a question from my daughter. "Daddy why do all the other girls have dates with boys except Snow White?".

As to the why not question, anarchy is in no ones best interest. I am fine with I am right or the other guy is right.

Why all this is also important, if I kicked the bucket tomorrow and my family decided to sell off my collection, I would want them to get the most money possible for it.

It goes back to finding a consensus that's trusted. Who do you ask to be on the this founding committee? You'd want people that hobbyists and breeders will buy in to - people's whose opinions they trust - or you'll never get anyone to follow the standards that are set.

Step one - identify your committee. Step two - get them to agree to a standard.

Good luck with that. I just don't see it happening.

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

While this may seem like a good idea you will never get agreement among hobbyists. Some are purist but many like snakes that are "different". Unique animals, even if not genetic, typically go for a premium. What about a paradox? Or a ringer? They wouldn't fit a standard but the demand is huge for such snakes. I know this cinnamon champagne wouldn't fit a standard but I bet if I put her up for sale I'd get more for her not less.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...amp%2520Fe.jpg

A snake that is "slightly different" that's being sold for more money may not be a seller trying to pull off a fast one. I've always looked for BPs that were slightly different, or very different, and it's often paid off for me. I once bought a super mojave that just looked different to me. After talking with the seller a very well known breeder at the next table told me he's seen super mojaves that looked similar and he didn't think she was special. I bought her anyway as I wanted to produce crystals and I thought she had a neat look. I'm glad I liked her as she hatched this in her first clutch...

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...KingDinker.jpg

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Rarity is almost always worth more money and is in its own category. If I ever produced a two headed snake I would be on the phone to BHB in about two seconds because I have no doubt Brian would want it. A two headed snake holds no value for me but it is rare and odd. That in itself is enough to make someone pay big money for it.

As to your famous dinker.... On that day you were the smartest and luckiest guy in the room.

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

It goes back to finding a consensus that's trusted. Who do you ask to be on the this founding committee? You'd want people that hobbyists and breeders will buy in to - people's whose opinions they trust - or you'll never get anyone to follow the standards that are set.

Step one - identify your committee. Step two - get them to agree to a standard.

Good luck with that. I just don't see it happening.

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Won't know until it's tried and it may turn out to be a good thing

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

The answer to the first one is a little philosophical so I have no expectation of agreement. I will answer it with a question from my daughter. "Daddy why do all the other girls have dates with boys except Snow White?".

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Huh?

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

As to the why not question, anarchy is in no ones best interest. I am fine with I am right or the other guy is right.

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There it is. This is why at the very core you and I are different. I live in a world with incredible amounts of color, where you seem to live a very black and white existance. There is a time and place for right and wrong, but to compare differing opinions of percieved beauty to anarchy because of those opinions is beyond my comprehension.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Why all this is also important, if I kicked the bucket tomorrow and my family decided to sell off my collection, I would want them to get the most money possible for it.

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That's a very noble cause and I commend you for it.