Semi graphic bite photos.

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

You must live in an outlier area. That is not the typical lingo even amongst police departments. Perhaps it is used colloquially at that department to refer to any police dog.

"Patrol Dog" is the name of a certification. Check out the United State's Police K9 Association's (A large national organization which many police departments use to certify their teams) certification requirements:

http://www.uspcak9.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/PATROL-DOG-I-CERTIFICATION-RULES-2016.pdf

As you can see the "Patrol Dog" certification includes a section on criminal apprehension aka bite work. The other North American k9 associations use similar terminology. Detection dogs have their own certifications that don't use that terminology.

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That makes sense. Perhaps instead of referring to the certification, they are simply referring to what they are actively assigned to. Like one officer that's assigned to the Paddy Wagon wouldn't be called a "patrol officer" but "garbage pick up...." (a joke, of course)


Herp Derp

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

If you get the time I would be interested - I still have my copy of Colby's book. I don't think I have ever read Stratton's though.

I think this is one of those mythos where the truth lies somewhere in the middle. My opinion is based on match reports, interviews with dog men, old gazette articles and pedigree research. Heck even old classifieds from the early 1900s touting the bull terriers as watch dogs.

I am content to let this be an agree to disagree thing.

Believe it or not we are 100% on the same side. Both pit bull loving people that wants what is best for the breed. We might disagree with what that is exactly and we definitely disagree on breeding practices 50 - 100 years ago but at heart are both fanciers of the dogs and it sounds like we've both had pretty amazing ones in our lives.

I've owned game bred pits - i once had to use a break stick on a boy while playing with a tether pole. He landed on a baby copper head and got bit. Latched onto that tug and would not let go. (How's that for gameness?!) Had to break him off to take him to the emergency vet. Silly goose of a dog. He was an amazing and sweet boy. Actually he saved my life once. Fell asleep with my TV on and it caught fire! :O He woke me up.

It's the same with snakes (getting back on topic!). Not every snake is right for every snake owner and some complete *insert BP-net inappropriate mean word here* get ones they are in no way, shape or form capable of owning then a tragedy happens... and it ruins it for those of us who are responsible.

Which is probably about 85% of the reason I an a total misanthrope :p

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Strattons' book is an excellent read and doesn't contain any myths. You are starting a bit later on in the history of the breed. The practice of culling is centuries old within the earliest formation of the breed. He (Stratton) regularly read the Pit Bull Gazette and 35 Years of Fighting Dogs is also favorably mentioned in his writing. Unfortunately I can't site anything again because I'm not by the books.

We don't disagree at all on breeding practices at least I never got that impression. The point I made was the traits that were sought after beyond being a gamer by some of the folks. I don't believe I went further into my views on breeding.

I'll PM you the info in the book and also look at the rest of my materials.

I've been doing most of this tread on a cell phone which has been very frustrating and I'm not near my books.

I will give you a few other books as well.

There is a big reason these (Pits) were the ultimate family dog back in the day.

Gameness is only part of it though it is the largest part. Quality breeding for stability was a trait that was preferred.

You simply can't deal with a "pit situation" with a completely erratic animal.

The dogs were focused on the job/task at hand, and when being broken up or restarted it was always preferred, but not always the case to have something handleable.

Back then a 60 pound dog was considered a larger animal as well.

Today's dogs are not the same for the most part.

I'm glad you pointed out that I had you confused with another poster.

I'll PM you today or tomorrow.

In the event anybody is still interested or was doubting my earlier comments about the early creation of the APBT and how "man biters" were not desired and often culled you can read the info in an article that mentions Richard F. Stratton. (Page 20) He is what I would call an expert on the history of these dogs, and also well know in the game dog scene.

His research and involvement in the breed can't really be questioned. He names the names and the dogs from the past and shares his views whether you agree with them or not, he is more than qualified.

The online article is here:
http://arizona.openrepository.com/ar...182_sip1_m.pdf

Younger people may not understand that this breed dates way back. Richard is no spring chicken himself. He is one of the most passionate men when it comes to the TRUE American Pit Bull Terrier.

An interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwCkcnccXmw

Again I have no doubt that the information I passed on was legit, and it is sited in more than one source. Some may disagree but you are more than likely speaking of the exceptions rather than the rule. These were very sound dogs.


I own 2 of the 4 books here and both discuss the culling/euthanizing of pit dogs that bit man.
https://www.amazon.com/Book-American.../dp/0866227199

As a general rule it was an oddity to have man biters. That is not to say they didn't exist, but they were not as desired as stable game dogs.

It is flat out documented in both books. As a matter of fact a portion of a quote on page 80 from Stratton's first book reads like this. "old dog men called them (man biters) screwballs and had them euthanized."

Though not flat out stated in this book although it could be I didn't have time to read it all over again, the underlying theme is that man biters were frowned upon and it is certainly implied if you read through. Colby is probably the most influential name in the foundation of the breed. My first pit was 1/2 Colby lines.

https://www.amazon.com/Colbys-Book-A.../dp/079382091X

These are NOT myths. The breed, at one time was one of the most confident, loyal and loving dog breeds to walk the planet. Some of the best champion dogs were able to live with other animals in complete harmony and were more than affectionate and loyal to their families. They were one of the breeds least likely to bite people. Back in the day dogs often roamed and there were no leash laws. A good, confident pit knew its place and rarely caused problems according to much of these writings.

There is a reason for it and it has a lot to do with breeding history. Common sense should tell a person that any dog breeding line should contain stability. Erratic behavior generally took away from the goal and made resetting and tending to the dogs challenging.


I have several others books on this breed and many other "fighting" breeds and some field experience in various dog sport and personal protection trials. I'm not making any of this up and if you doubt me, I urge you to read about the breed history (old old history), and the old dog men and come to your own conclusion.

While pits can and do excel at dog sport and protection sports today, they are far outnumbered by the tradition breeds. Sheps, Mals, Dutchies and so on.
It isn't the true nature of a pit bull to want to bite man. Centuries leading up to and during the creation of the breed have an influence.

That said I was able to get our female into the sports but she was far more interested in kisses and pets from bystanders in our training group. I miss her dearly as she was our first and I was able get her OB title in PSA.

Voodoolamb,

I certainly consider you an asset to the breed and decided to post the books here for you, and others if they are genuinely interested in pit bulls.

I felt it more educational than a PM if others wanted to research the breed.

Somebody earlier in this thread took an unwarranted shot at the breed and I felt compelled to jump in with facts. Having owned pits, worked and titled one and now owning a wonderful, racey, built, (old school body type) black pit rescue I can attest to the REAL temperament of these dogs.

So much for the part about snakes in my lost thread : )