What Do You Think of This Super Pastel

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

I believe what she's saying is that the pastel gene has been bred out by a lot of people. Some people started with sub-par single gene pastels and bred them to dark normals or other sub-par quality genes. These sub-par parents will generally produce sub-par offspring. So, if the person who bred the snake in question is working with two sub-par single gene pastels, that the single gene pastel offspring would also likely be sub-par. If the breeder is producing sub-par pastels, it is likely that if they hit the super, it would also be of sub-par quality. So, it's possible that this is a super pastel created by two sub-par single gene pastels, which results in a sub-par super that others might mistake as a single gene pastel.

Clear as mud now?

Short version... It's possible that this is a low quality super produced by low quality pastels...

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Assuming the parents of the snake in question were both pastels, is there anyway of knowing for certain whether we are looking at a super or just a regular pastel short of breeding the snake? (I'm guessing the answer is "no," but I want to be sure.)

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Originally Posted by mike689

Understood. But the super pastel should still have a little blushing even if it is super low quality, no?

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It does have blushing. It's not a great pic but the back of the head is blushed out. It's just not white like many other supers. I think the possibility is there but there is no way to know for sure without breeding it. I'm not saying I think it is a super, I'm just saying there is a possibility. I'd want to see both parents, and the entire clutch post shed. Then I would make a more educated guess on its genetics.

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

I believe what she's saying is that the pastel gene has been bred out by a lot of people. Some people started with sub-par single gene pastels and bred them to dark normals or other sub-par quality genes. These sub-par parents will generally produce sub-par offspring. So, if the person who bred the snake in question is working with two sub-par single gene pastels, that the single gene pastel offspring would also likely be sub-par. If the breeder is producing sub-par pastels, it is likely that if they hit the super, it would also be of sub-par quality. So, it's possible that this is a super pastel created by two sub-par single gene pastels, which results in a sub-par super that others might mistake as a single gene pastel.

Clear as mud now?

Short version... It's possible that this is a low quality super produced by low quality pastels...

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This is exactly what I meant...

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Originally Posted by BPGuy

Assuming the parents of the snake in question were both pastels, is there anyway of knowing for certain whether we are looking at a super or just a regular pastel short of breeding the snake? (I'm guessing the answer is "no," but I want to be sure.)

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All 'super' means is that it's a homozygous pastel. There is no implied guarantee of the quality. Pastels are probably one of the most mass produced morphs in existence. There was a time not so long ago where pastels were bred to every normal female a breeder could lay their hands on regardless of looks because every one of them was worth some big money. There are a LOT of pastels and super pastels out there that do NOT look nice and bright and blindingly yellow like the pictures you will see people posting on line. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the people who are claiming that it's not a super have not produced very many pastels or super pastels themselves. Personally I think if the breeder told you it's a super pastel, I see no reason to disbelieve him/her.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

All 'super' means is that it's a homozygous pastel. There is no implied guarantee of the quality. Pastels are probably one of the most mass produced morphs in existence. There was a time not so long ago where pastels were bred to every normal female a breeder could lay their hands on regardless of looks because every one of them was worth some big money. There are a LOT of pastels and super pastels out there that do NOT look nice and bright and blindingly yellow like the pictures you will see people posting on line. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the people who are claiming that it's not a super have not produced very many pastels or super pastels themselves. Personally I think if the breeder told you it's a super pastel, I see no reason to disbelieve him/her.

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It's sounding to me that, absent actually breeding the snake (or running a DNA test :)), determining whether it is a regular pastel or a super is somewhat subjective, which is a bit discomforting given the significant price difference between a regular pastel and a super.

Well, I went back to the store today to have another look. Because this time I knew what I was looking for, I paid particular attention to the blushing. This time, I clearly saw blushing on the head and body (at least that is what I think I saw). Here are some photos I took this evening. Hopefully, they give you all a better idea of what I was looking at. Oh, I specifically asked about the parents: One is a pastel and the other is a calico pastel.

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps02323f04.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps41f74a5f.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps82c588db.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...psfa0c136b.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2fe81f68.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8eace60c.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/...ps490c6078.jpg

These aren't the best photos, but I think they are a better representation than the one I originally posted. With these new photos and the information about the pairing that produced this baby (she weighed 228 grams about two weeks ago), do any of you now think she might be a super pastel (I'm not trying to be argumentative; I truly want to know whether these photos change anyone's opinion)?

Yes, I still believe that is a super pastel.

I wish I had a good pic of Benny, my pastel.... because the snake you're looking on getting could be an identical twin to him.
He's EXACTLY the same. I'll dig around for a picture that shows him well.

Unfortunately, I don't have any recent pics that showcase his brilliant colors..... I do however have this pic, which I took 3 months ago the day I got him.
It's a very low-quality pic, and his colors look drab.... but you can see they look very similar.
I will get a more recent picture of him, because in his current color phase, he looks just like that girl you're thinking about getting.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file.../2/5/benny.jpg[/URL]

Idk if he's high quality, but his colors get more briliant every week.

To the OP.......I have read through this thread and having been a newbie myself just a couple years ago I know it can be overwhelming asking for an opinion and recieving so many different responses. Unfortunately I am going to toss out one more opinion for you (my own ;))

The consensus in the group is that generally regular pastels sell for $150-200 and supers sell for $450-550. This is either a regular pastel, a very nice high quality regular pastel, which should be in the higher price range upwards of $200......OR......it is a very low quality super pastel, which should be in the lower price range of $450.

If you are NOT wanting to breed, and you just want a nice pretty pet, I would get yourself a nice pastel. I highly doubt the sellers, who believe this is a super, are going to cut the price in half for you (but there's no harm in trying I guess), so if I were you I would go find yourself a nice pastel for $200.

If you PLAN on breeding down the road, and you definately want a SUPER pastel, this is NOT an animal you want to breed, there is too much hesitation amongst your fellow breeders here trying to distinguish whether or not this is a super. If you are going to spend the money, go find a reputable breeder who has a NICE high quality animal that there is no doubt in YOUR mind that it is a SUPER pastel, and buy it.

If you have to post a picture asking if a morph is a morph, then chances are it either isn't, or it is a poor example. Both of those are not what you want for breeding purposes. But again, if you just want a nice pretty pet, then at least go find a fairly priced snake.....and perhaps spend the money you save on a nice enclosure for it (or bank it away for another snake down the road because if you have not yet read the fine print, this hobby IS addicting and you WILL get another...there is a guarantee on that....;))


Good luck with whatever you decide and welcome to the herp addiction!

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Originally Posted by tikigator

To the OP.......I have read through this thread and having been a newbie myself just a couple years ago I know it can be overwhelming asking for an opinion and recieving so many different responses. Unfortunately I am going to toss out one more opinion for you (my own ;))

The consensus in the group is that generally regular pastels sell for $150-200 and supers sell for $450-550. This is either a regular pastel, a very nice high quality regular pastel, which should be in the higher price range upwards of $200......OR......it is a very low quality super pastel, which should be in the lower price range of $450.

If you are NOT wanting to breed, and you just want a nice pretty pet, I would get yourself a nice pastel. I highly doubt the sellers, who believe this is a super, are going to cut the price in half for you (but there's no harm in trying I guess), so if I were you I would go find yourself a nice pastel for $200.

If you PLAN on breeding down the road, and you definately want a SUPER pastel, this is NOT an animal you want to breed, there is too much hesitation amongst your fellow breeders here trying to distinguish whether or not this is a super. If you are going to spend the money, go find a reputable breeder who has a NICE high quality animal that there is no doubt in YOUR mind that it is a SUPER pastel, and buy it.

If you have to post a picture asking if a morph is a morph, then chances are it either isn't, or it is a poor example. Both of those are not what you want for breeding purposes. But again, if you just want a nice pretty pet, then at least go find a fairly priced snake.....and perhaps spend the money you save on a nice enclosure for it (or bank it away for another snake down the road because if you have not yet read the fine print, this hobby IS addicting and you WILL get another...there is a guarantee on that....;))


Good luck with whatever you decide and welcome to the herp addiction!

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I think that about sums it up.

With the newer pictures, I can see the blushing. It's more than you would find on a normal pastel, but it's no where near what you would find on a great super pastel. I'm changing my opinion to a very low quality super pastel. But like tikigator says, if you plan to breed it, don't! You'll make low quality pastels and flood the market with low quality animals instead of breeding quality to quality. If the snake would just be a pet and you'll willing to pay the money for it, get it.