Can I attatch my ZooMed Heat pad directly to tub?

I simply used my hand as a heat source to find how much loss there was you have been suggesting that you will see a 30ºF loss to the tub wall I am suggesting that one or two degrees is all that will be lost. My hand being 94.5ºF and the measured transfer though the tub wall was 92.6 that is a loss of 1.9ºF. That is in a room temp of 72ºF and the start temp of the plastic was that same 72ºF

You are stating that a pad producing temps in excess of 130º to 160º will magically drop to 94º with just the thickness of 1mm plastic tub wall. I have just proved that 94 becomes 92 that is so far away from the 36+º shift you are suggesting. If you were correct I should have not have seen ANY change or at least very little (73 maybe???) in the temp of the tub when heat was applied.

I agree that plastic is slightly higher than glass in an equal thickness (depending on the plastic type I am skeptical of PP would be) but tanks are MUCH thicker than plastic tubs!!!! Where oh where did you get 6mm thick tubs? I would love to get some!!!

You have constantly compared one situation to something so totally different that it is silly. A tub is not the same or even approaching the same R value of a tank. Do you actually believe 1/32 inch plastic has higher insulation value than 1/4 inch glass? That is silly!!!

This whole test of yours is so laughable I don't know why I am bothering I know the answer before any test need be done. Tubs transfer heat fairly well, how you can suggest this is not true I simply cannot understand. Unless you mean bath tubs? You have compared plate glass to injection plastic and claimed injection plastic insulates better... why not injection plastic to cast iron it is just as logical.

I think that the debate is over...

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...d-and-transfer

Hit 107 within 2 hours

But back to reality, the ideal temperature for the hot side of a Ball Python cage is 88-92 degrees. even at the low end for an unregulated UTH, it is pure insanity to think that a plastic tub or glass take, or even a 1/2" thick sheet of PVC (Animal Plastics custom Reptile Cages) could drop the temperature into the ideal range.

Aaron was there any doubt in the first place? I don't think so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I think that the debate is over...

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...d-and-transfer

Hit 107 within 2 hours

But back to reality, the ideal temperature for the hot side of a Ball Python cage is 88-92 degrees. even at the low end for an unregulated UTH, it is pure insanity to think that a plastic tub or glass take, or even a 1/2" thick sheet of PVC (Animal Plastics custom Reptile Cages) could drop the temperature into the ideal range.

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yep its over. There was more to this than just numbers. Tired of arguing. You'll keep risking fires, heat pads will keep being manufactured and used and life will go on.

Hey guys, I'm in the same boat as Hellacious. I'm looking to heat a 40 gal glass breeder with an under tank heater. I will use a thermostat and if anybody can suggest an affordable one that would be great.

This is a present for my son and we get the snake today. We have the tank set up and have been doing little tests for a week. Currently I have the overhead lamp, 3 thermometers. 1 is an indoor outdoor sitting on the cage floor semi center, but slightly to the hot side. 1 is a strip on the cool side on the inside glass, and the other is on the hot side inside on the glass.

I have aspen sub, a good sized water dish, 2 hides and a climbing branch.

Today I'm getting a 3rd hide, maybe a 2nd branch and for sure a 2nd water dish.

At the moment I'm not impressed with the light. Its a day time white bulb and it does heat, but the side cage temps are warmer than the floor temp, plus there is no regulation. I'm thinking about a lower power, red or blue bulb used in combo with the UTH???

We'll also get some type of jungle cage wrap because my son wants to have his snake in a neat looking display. I'm running the show as far as care and handling until he gets a few years older, but I'm new to this and want to do it right. The snake is a 1 year plus old female.

The room temp is not consistent because sometimes we run AC in the summer and other days not. 2 days ago it was 93 degrees and today its not quite 60. WTF? LOL. Anyhow, I'm hell bent on getting the tank as good as it can be for the new arrival. Unfortunately, we have to experiment with a UTH after we have the snake instead of before. That's my fault. I'm gonna be more stressed out than the snake.

She's from a credible reptile place in Minneapolis/ST. Paul and I'm sure they'll assist me a bit more too.

I'd be fine with a private reply or 1 here. It sorta looks like the topic changed and I'm new so I don't wanna upset anybody. We've got about 6 hours before we pick her up.

Thanks, Gio

Hey Glo welcome! Before I start with a response you should look at a few care sheets and my first bit of advise is not easy. You should wait a bit until you get the temps stable first before picking up the snake.

http://www.vpi.com/publications/the_...hon_care_sheet
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet
http://www.theurbanpython.com/caring-ball-python

There is a lot of variations out there and differing ideas about what is correct. I recommend a few sheets and find a middle ground.

Stable room temps makes the whole temp game easier. It is not always easy to do however. I would recommend a Herpstat intro http://spyderrobotics.com/products/herpstat_intro.html as a GREAT thermostat it is 100$. The Hydrofarm thermostat has its issues but working with in them it is acceptable... http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR.../dp/B000NZZG3S

The temp reading off the probe is suspect. They have a high degree of error (spec'd at +/-3ºF) they are designed to be used with earth or gel so they have a slow response with glass that heats slowly too that works itself out. Tubs They tend to swing from over where you want them to under.

Tanks with open tops can cause issues humid air rises and heat rises so often you lose both from the top. I prefer PVCx caging however that is something else you do not have. Tanks can work and work well Initially I was going to suggest side turning the tank but a breeder that is not going to work. I would close off 1/3 to 1/2 the top over the 'hot' warm spot really (90º isn't really hot to our bodies...) that will hold some of the heat in. The sides I would suggest using blue foam to hold as much heat in as you can. You can attach pictures or coloured paper to it so it looks better. The ambient temp the simplest solution is a Fluorescent light fixture INSIDE the lid. They produce enough heat that it will often heat the air inside and they are cheap and easy to get. You will have to macguyver something to hold it.

You may still need a night light dark blue would be best as it can be on 24/7 with no effect to the snake. Start there that is enough to digest.

Hey thanks for the response. I do have the top covered (1/2) with foil and a towel over that. I like the thermostat idea with the UTH, I should have been a little more specific, I can get the tank to the right temp (depending on the care sheet) and maintain pretty well for the most part, and will certainly be able to do so with a UTH though that will change my lighting set up. The snake is ready to go today which is unfortunate, but I thought I'd be ready with a week between setup and arrival plus I'm on days off for the next 3 days so I'll be home all the time for the next 3.

As you said the ambient room temp is the game changer. That is always going to be the hard part. I'm confident tonight will be OK. My biggest concern is when we take our trip in late summer. I read up on the thermostats and like the one you mentioned.

I was also looking at Thermax foam sheets as a possible insulator, but they are ugly as hell and more bulky that I'd like. I suppose 1 in the back would be OK if I had a nice backdrop between it and the tank wall. Even the bottom would be an idea as it is fire rated and probably would never be tested by the UTH.

I'll keep you posted and come crying if I've FUBAR'd the whole thing.

I have photos on my I-phone of the setup, but I'm old and not sure how to post them here. I have a Photobucket account if those are still cool.

As of right now I have a 92 hot side temp 2.5 inches off the deck, and 82 center floor temp, and an 80 cool side temp 2.5 inches up. This is about what I get daily UNLESS, we have the windows open and it gets hot outside, then the tank heats more, obviously. When we have to switch to indoor AC is when the energy gets sucked out. I'm hoping the UTH will solve the problem.

Sound OK for the night? Also do the blue bulbs put out heat? I want one that does so we can use it in concert with the UTH.

Sounds like you are doing ok for now.

Photobucket is the best way to get pictures on this site... once on photobucket, copy the "IMG" code and paste it into a post here on BP.net

Keep in mind that UTH's do not greatly change the air temperature in the tank, but only heat the floor... further if the substrate layer is too thick the heat from an UTH cannot get through. I have found that the substrate layer needs to be 1/2" thick or less for UTH's to be effective.

Blue lights put out heat, but not much compared to reflector heat bulbs (the Blue bulbs are standard light bulbs that have been coated in blue coating.

I prefer Infrared heat bulbs as these can be left on 24/7 without bothering the snake.

This is what I use: http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...uctId=11147193

Thank you!! Perfect score on the light. That's what I was looking for. Sorry my terminology is a little off I wanted to express that I wanted a light that still heated yet was able to be on constantly. We get enough regular daylight in the room so I may can the white bulb unless it has more heat coming out. I can't remember if its a 100 or a 75W.

What do you use? Or should I assume with a handle like Serpent Merchant you have the plastic shelf system and have it WAAY more dialed in than I do.

My biggest problem with the light system seems that right under the light is hot, but the cool side is less. So far today it seems very good across the whole tank, but I'm wondering if 2 lesser power lights spread out a bit (not totally other ends) would be more even heat wise and put the UTH on the warm side obviously.

Funny how a month of research and reading books and I'm still scrambling. My son is pretty well versed from internet stuff. He knows where the temps should be so if they are off he'll come tell me. Team effort!!

This is what I use, PVC cages:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/c22733cf.jpg

Here is a thread I wrote on them: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...With-Pictures!

For your set up I would get a UTH with a thermostat, and use it to create the basking site of 90 degrees on one side of the tank, then use a lower wattage heat bulb (or a heat bulb on a lamp dimmer) to keep the air temperature in the cage 80 degrees.

You do want one side of the cage to be hotter than the other, one side should be around 90, and the other side around 80, and the middle should be somewhere in-between.