Desert problems

Who else is currently trying to prove out desert females that are old enough to breed? I'm curious because I really would love to hear more about it.. Even failures! I want to know where it's going on mostly--do they mostly just not even take? Do many of them make it all the way and lay slugs? Curious if even getting them gravid is rare. It's hard to tell without knowing who is doing what!

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Originally Posted by JLC

Here's the difference...

"I've heard it said that incubating spiders at lower than normal temps eliminates the wobble. I think I'll give it a try and will see if that works." <--- Interesting theory that doesn't impugn anyone's reputation and does not put itself out as some sort of fact without any proof.

"Kevin is a very bad person for intentionally withholding critical information about the well being of the animals he breeds and sells to other people." <--- A vicious rumor based on nothing but hearsay that can't be backed up or examined by anyone, but will very likely be taken and run with by any number of bozos who enjoy repeating crap like that for no other reason than they read it somewhere.

SEE the difference???

Kevin can speculate all he wants about what may or may not be the issue with deserts. As can we all. There's nothing wrong with speculation, so long as one doesn't forget that's exactly what it is.

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Fair enough. I just don't feel it's necessary for anyone to be quoting him based on this particular morph. I honestly wasn't trying to make Kevin out to be a bad guy, just making a point that he does keep information. Which he openly admits. Really not trying to make him out to be a bad guy. I know what I initially said sounded that way, so that's why I apologized.

I would not remotely consider a desert male even at the current prices. There is a good thread over on BLBC about what someone would pay for a Desert. Obviously, there are folks willing to gamble with a few thousand bucks and are paying the current prices.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

I would not remotely consider a desert male even at the current prices. There is a good thread over on BLBC about what someone would pay for a Desert. Obviously, there are folks willing to gamble with a few thousand bucks and are paying the current prices.

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What are you gambling with if you buy a male? You aren't. Desert males have no problem with reproducing the gene. You aren't gambling. If anything you would be protecting the investment knowing that only males can reproduce it and the market won't get flooded with another co-dom. The only problem I could see with it is selling the females. Well sell them extremely cheap if you are convinced they won't produce. Males will still grab a fair price for some time. And I've still seen people throw $1500 at desert females (recently).

Also you gamble when you buy any animal. You gamble with it's life (whether it will thrive), whether or not it will reproduce, be a strong breeder, etc. This gamble is no different. If you are in it for the long haul then $2000 is nothing. You'll spend that on plenty of animals before it's all said and done, and I'd bet that not all of them will breed successfully. This whole industry is a gamble.

People that wait to get into the project are just losing valuable time and money with the gene. A couple thousand is pocket change in this industry. Look at the money a world first grabs or a new gene from Africa. There are still HUNDREDS of worlds first yet to be created with this gene. And by the time all the nay sayers get one, it'll be to late and deserts (single gene) will be like the spider, pinstripe and everyting else.... CHEAP!

There are obviously a couple of stances on the subject, and that is mine. So knock yourself out with all the Deserts you please. I choose to go a different direction.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

There are obviously a couple of stances on the subject, and that is mine. So knock yourself out with all the Deserts you please. I choose to go a different direction.

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I realize there are a couple of stances on the gene. I also realize there is only one stance that matters and that's the stance you personally take. Just letting you know that you are going to gamble with whatever you buy. I still don't understand how the desert is a gamble though. You said yourself people are willing to spend a couple thousand on one. So why don't you wanna breed them again? A couple thousand per morph sounds great to me. I'm not trying to persuade you to buy a desert either. Not everyone loves each morph the same.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Talk with Ben Renick. Hes got many Adult female deserts and had a few Die due to Egg Binding, which is all to common in desert females. And hes yet to get a viable clutch from them.

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This is what really concerns me about the desert female issue. The few reports I've read of breeders posting their desert female failures involve the female becoming egg bound (not just slugging out). IMO there's a big difference between an animal that just can't reproduce, and one that is at risk of losing its life if it tries. (And yes, I know that every female animal is at risk of losing her life through breeding -- but if it's almost a given with desert girls, that makes me seriously question if I would want to work with the gene.)

If the girls are just sterile -- no death involved -- I would still love to pick up a desert male. I think it's a gorgeous morph with some knockout combos. I just would be worried about producing females if the females were doomed to dystocia and death from breeding.

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Originally Posted by PassionsPythons

I'm about 99% sure that he said he didn't own a desert in the video Raphael did with him talking about the desert and lethal combos. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I heard him say it.

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Watch his other videos, he DOES have deserts. A bunch of 2011 offspring have desert in it, so again I'm not sure where your coming off saying he doesn't own any? Pay attention.

deserts available from NERD. they're listed on the same page as all the wobble-cured spiders.

http://newenglandreptile.com/cart/85-desert

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Originally Posted by PassionsPythons

I realize there are a couple of stances on the gene. I also realize there is only one stance that matters and that's the stance you personally take. Just letting you know that you are going to gamble with whatever you buy. I still don't understand how the desert is a gamble though. You said yourself people are willing to spend a couple thousand on one. So why don't you wanna breed them again? A couple thousand per morph sounds great to me. I'm not trying to persuade you to buy a desert either. Not everyone loves each morph the same.

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If you do not see the gamble in the Desert gene, then by all mean go for it, if you have not already. Good luck not making all or mostly females on your first clutch. I think for the big breeders that can run the project on the side, it is great and I wish them luck. For a small breeder, it is probably not a great idea to invest in.