This is getting RIDICULOUS! Lesser pastel for $400 shipped?!

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

I understand and I'm not offended. I think people see prices change each year and think that BPs and other morphs must be a bad investment. I would agree if you just put them in a fish tank to look at, but most people spending lots of money aren't doing that. If you make good decisions, work hard, and mix some luck in you can do well...

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And we "keepers only" thank you Breeders for making the investments.

We all win in the end!

I still don't think that $400. shipped, on a male Lesser Pastel is "market crashing." (Even though I personally feel they are worth more.)

It may be priced at the lower end of market pricing, but it's still here.
I have not accepted the $375. shipped offer, and have not had anybody willing to pay the $400. FIRM.
(So I will probably hold him back.)

Maybe $350. is more of a realistic market value ?
If it is not selling at $400. shipped, how can the market value be $550. - $850.

I just don't think it's right to tell people that they are "worth" more then they actually are, just to get them to "invest" in them, by purchasing our hatchlings at exaggerated prices.

Ball Pythons are not selling at the high prices that most breeders are advertising them for on the forums.
They are either sold for much lower prices to keepers that are aware of the true value aka "lowballers," or they are traded off to other breeders.

When someone advertises their animals at real life values in order to try and actually get a cash sale, the "professional" breeders label them a market crasher, and attempt to get their "friends" that purchased their animals at inflated prices as "an investment," to black list that seller.

I am not saying that Ball Pythons are a bad "investment."
If I were to sell all of my hatchlings this season, at 1/4 of their current market value, I would make a return on my "investment."

The truth is, if I were to brake even, and my hobby were to sustain itself, I would consider that "WINNING."
Most hobbies require a perpetual monetary investment, and give nothing back other then personal enjoyment.

I keep and breed my animals for personal enjoyment, and would continue to do so even if I were to run in the red.
If they pay for their own food and upkeep, that's great.
If I make some extra money as a reward for the time and work that I put into my hobby, that's just icing on the cake.

I don't do this as an alternative to actually having a job.
I do not want to invest more of my time and money into being able to, and bumping my classified ads three times per day for the next 8 months, and going back and forth haggling with buyers over my prices.
I do not enjoy that aspect of the hobby.

I have decided to list MY animals, at MY firm cash price, and be open to fair trade offers from other hobby keeper / breeders.
If they don't sell for my asking price, and no acceptable trade offers are made, I will keep them.
Otherwise, I will sell them to locals for prices that actually are RIDICULOUS, or give them away to my friends and family.
(If I sell them cheap locally, or give them to my F&F, I pick up another weekly feeder account, and expand the hobby within my circle of influence.)

I think I commented on the op's reply about investments cape fear you say you made back 100% of your original out lay IF you were only trying to MAKE MONEY that sucks. Did you account a wage for your self? I figure that reasonable is 3100 a year (3 hours a week @ 20$) I am not saying don't breed but if you are investing money and expect a return there are far better ways and much less risk. I am not talking about starting a business but as the op stated investments and return on capitol. If that is your only concern leaving money in the bank would have been a better investment. I think the OP's flaw in logic is thinking of investment. It is not an investment and likely should not be, but a passion and labour of love absolutely. How many breeders out there whom are full time and have no other income?


The example I used of the spider that breeder has over 160 animals but accounts costs per animal the spider in question is still after 10 years or so in the red, and is a long way from breaking even. This breeder started being in the black after 4 years but has never drawn much of a wage it remains a labour of love not gain.

Whoa puppy...watch it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Q2w...layer_embedded

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I think I commented on the op's reply about investments cape fear you say you made back 100% of your original out lay IF you were only trying to MAKE MONEY that sucks. Did you account a wage for your self? I figure that reasonable is 3100 a year (3 hours a week @ 20$) I am not saying don't breed but if you are investing money and expect a return there are far better ways and much less risk. I am not talking about starting a business but as the op stated investments and return on capitol. If that is your only concern leaving money in the bank would have been a better investment. I think the OP's flaw in logic is thinking of investment. It is not an investment and likely should not be, but a passion and labour of love absolutely. How many breeders out there whom are full time and have no other income?


The example I used of the spider that breeder has over 160 animals but accounts costs per animal the spider in question is still after 10 years or so in the red, and is a long way from breaking even. This breeder started being in the black after 4 years but has never drawn much of a wage it remains a labour of love not gain.

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You also mentioned that your friend's spider was a poor breeder. That can happen but what about the average, good or fantastic breeders? If his fell in that group his numbers would be different. You can't just point out a bad example and use that to "prove" that bps are a bad investment. In contrast, I wouldn't take my best breeding project and use that as a typical example either. I've done well on many projects and I know others that are doing the same or better. Again, it's not easy but can it be done. You still need to make good business decisions, diversify your investments and work.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

The example I used of the spider that breeder has over 160 animals but accounts costs per animal the spider in question is still after 10 years or so in the red, and is a long way from breaking even. This breeder started being in the black after 4 years but has never drawn much of a wage it remains a labour of love not gain.

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I think in your example it's important to add that he probably started this business at the peak in the market value for bps, and since then the economy has crashed and his return of that investment was probably very difficult to return. Not so much because he was breeding snakes, but rather the market itself took a large hit.

On the investment note, I want to add that it takes money to make money. Investing entirely in morphs that have been around a while becomes more challenging to make a return. Successful breeders use old morphs into new morphs to create new combos that are in high demand. There are expenses to care for snakes, and if I'm producing snakes that are common and really aren't in high demand, I'm not going to cover my expenses, let alone make a profit.

I know breeders who don't breed super high end morphs/combos, however they produce a large quantity of them to make a return/profit. The problem with this, is they need to find buyers, and sometimes they even sell overseas to move snakes. Or in some cases, drop the price in order to move them, like the thread topic with the pastel lesser. A breeder who focuses on high end morphs don't need to produce the quantity to make a return because their offspring will be in high demand and valued higher.

I'll end by saying, $400 for a lesser pastel is quite low, but the breeder who sold him isn't doing himself/herself any good.