Habitat vs Tupperwear

I used to believe that terrariums and the like were best for snakes, but I've since learned differently. I now house the majority of my snakes in tubs. They seem happier, if you can even guage a snake's happiness in terms we could understand. The snakes I house in tubs have silkier skin and just look better than the ones I keep in tanks. Those that are in tanks right now are only there because I don't have spare room in my rack at the moment.

Regardless of my position on the matter, I am disturbed by the way this argument is taking place. The subjectiveness in judging where a snake is happier works both ways. I see a lot of pro-tub people saying that the snake is happier in a tub, and that the tank people are not really taking into account how the snake feels. To ridicule someone for trying to judge a snake's feelings (or ignore them), and then make an assumption that your method is actually what makes it happy, does not make much sense to me. Having just made a point that the tank people cannot possibly know what makes a snake happy, and then argue that you are better at providing that happiness, is a very flawed argument.

Trying to decide what the snake "likes" best is futile.

At the same time, I think the language is what is holding me (and maybe everyone) up on this argument. I believe that when the pro-tub people talk about the snake's happiness they are trying to allude to their well-being, as opposed to emotional feelings. To me, the two camps are arguing either 1. two different things (emotional states v. physical well-being) or 2. the same thing, but in terms that the other side cannot (or refuses to) understand. I feel that we cannot have a meaningful discussion on the matter until the bases for assessing the well-being are objective, as well as defined. Until this happens, we are just sitting here spinning the proverbial wheels.

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Rhetoric aside, I do not see the difference between the two if you can maintain the snake's well-being and quality of life.

My Bottom line: As long as you can provide things like proper temperature gradient, humidity, snug shelter, water, etc. that closely approximate what the snake's physiology and instinctual behavior can take advantage of, the construction and composition of the container does not matter.

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Originally Posted by viperbry

Rhetoric aside, I do not see the difference between the two if you can maintain the snake's well-being and quality of life.

My Bottom line: As long as you can provide things like proper temperature gradient, humidity, snug shelter, water, etc. that closely approximate what the snake's physiology and instinctual behavior can take advantage of, the construction and composition of the container does not matter.

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:gj: :gj: :gj:
Exactly!

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Originally Posted by viperbry

At the same time, I think the language is what is holding me (and maybe everyone) up on this argument. I believe that when the pro-tub people talk about the snake's happiness they are trying to allude to their well-being, as opposed to emotional feelings. To me, the two camps are arguing either 1. two different things (emotional states v. physical well-being) or 2. the same thing, but in terms that the other side cannot (or refuses to) understand. I feel that we cannot have a meaningful discussion on the matter until the bases for assessing the well-being are objective, as well as defined. Until this happens, we are just sitting here spinning the proverbial wheels.

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I am refering to the snakes well-being. I personally do not think that snakes have feelings, so can't be happy or sad.

You can have the proper environment (and this includes temps, humidity, and hiding places) in a tub, a tank, AND a fancy cage! Period.

Tubs are not 'evil' or 'bad' for snakes. But neither are tanks. It can all work IF you put the right work and care into making them proper homes for a BP. The whole issue here, other than the 'feelings' thing which is moot, is aesthetics...and it shouldn't be an issue. Yes, it's nice to have a pretty cage with real plants and fancy hides, but most BPs just don't need or want that.
The most important thing to think of when readying a home for a BP, be it tub, tank, or cage, is getting it to hold the things that snake needs most - i.e. proper stable temperatures, the right level of humidity, and good secure hiding spots.

Now please... stop bashing each other and calling 'Tubs rule', or 'Tanks are the only way' and let's get back to some good snake keeping.

I do use tanks. However, as long as my little guys are shedding in one piece, eating regularly and healthy I don't see the need to change it. If the quality of life I'm trying to provide hinders I wouldn't hesitate to change to tubs.

IMHO, both are a great choice as long as you can provide what the snake needs. :)

I too believe that tanks and cages can be made into a good environment. In the 2 threads I posted in I made that clear. My problem is bashing the people who do use tubs. Those of us who use them dont bash people who do not. As long as the BPs needs are met like stated before. So why bash us? I was showing why tubs are not bad at all and even very beneficial.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

You can have the proper environment (and this includes temps, humidity, and hiding places) in a tub, a tank, AND a fancy cage! Period.

Tubs are not 'evil' or 'bad' for snakes. But neither are tanks. It can all work IF you put the right work and care into making them proper homes for a BP. The whole issue here, other than the 'feelings' thing which is moot, is aesthetics...and it shouldn't be an issue. Yes, it's nice to have a pretty cage with real plants and fancy hides, but most BPs just don't need or want that.
The most important thing to think of when readying a home for a BP, be it tub, tank, or cage, is getting it to hold the things that snake needs most - i.e. proper stable temperatures, the right level of humidity, and good secure hiding spots.

Now please... stop bashing each other and calling 'Tubs rule', or 'Tanks are the only way' and let's get back to some good snake keeping.

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Please pay attention---I don't include breeders in the tub debate. It's usually stated that way in the begining. Breeders, especially large ones don't have the option.

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Originally Posted by Arsinoe

I think you all know I hate it when snakes have to live in plastic bins. For those who just have a snake or two I want to make a poll to find out if you made a nice comfy habitat for your snake to live in or you dump it in plasticwear for convience sake.

Breeders don't have to reply. That's a whole different thing.

For those how use a habitat you can post pictures here too if you want.

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How's living under a bridge working out for you?

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Originally Posted by Arsinoe

Please pay attention---I don't include breeders in the tub debate. It's usually stated that way in the begining. Breeders, especially large ones don't have the option.

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I believe that must have been a misquote...since I never mentioned breeders being in or out. I think that anyone, breeder with 100 snakes or newbie with 1, can keep their snakes in any home if it's set up properly.