Ballbids.com

People like me...who don't care unless those guys are actually scamming people? lol.. What? Calm down, man. It's gonna be ok.
It's not as if it was YOUR 60 cents.

I do sort of take the whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing to heart, I admit that. If they prove guilty, I'll be right there with you in condemning them and spreading the word.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

People like me...who don't care unless those guys are actually scamming people? lol.. What? Calm down, man. It's gonna be ok.
It's not as if it was YOUR 60 cents.

I do sort of take the whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing to heart, I admit that. If they prove guilty, I'll be right there with you in condemning them and spreading the word.

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They have lied far too much already for me to trust them. I don't take kindly to being lied to.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

People like me...who don't care unless those guys are actually scamming people? lol.. What? Calm down, man. It's gonna be ok.
It's not as if it was YOUR 60 cents.

I do sort of take the whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing to heart, I admit that. If they prove guilty, I'll be right there with you in condemning them and spreading the word.

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Exactly how many more lies do they need to be caught up in? There are quite a few suspicious things also, but as far as out right lies.... the ads, the server crash, their TOS all out right lying.

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Originally Posted by sho220

hey buddy...you paying attention here? :D

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Yep.. been here the whole time, but like I had mentioned I gave my final word on my last post. Sadly I see you still want to keep going back and forth, so I'm here :D. Oh and I've been watching their bids, for the most. Unfortunately I was at the gym at the ending of the auctions so I couldn't use up my 5 FREE bids. But you can bet that if I was home, I would have bet :gj:.... Feel better now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

People like me...who don't care unless those guys are actually scamming people? lol.. What? Calm down, man. It's gonna be ok.
It's not as if it was YOUR 60 cents.

I do sort of take the whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing to heart, I admit that. If they prove guilty, I'll be right there with you in condemning them and spreading the word.

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I second, third, and fourth this. I said the same things when I responded to this thread and a certain internet superhero got all mad :rolleyes:. I don't know Zack, I don't know Avi, I had no idea of ballbids until everyone else found out about it. But considering how they represented themselves, and taking into consideration all the rules, I am willing to bid. Now if I start seeing that the auctions keep getting postponed or that their friends are the ones winning, then obviously I'd stop. From the beginning I said I had no problem with what they're doing CONSIDERING THEY WERE HONEST ABOUT EVERYTHING. And by everything I mean: A) there is an actual snake to be won B) normal-nonaffiliated bidders actually do win and C) the winner actually gets the snake.

Now as far as advertisements and their "quaratine" procedures, I don't really care for. Idc for a couple reasons: A) They claim to get their snakes from reputable people, and I'm going to assume the snake isn't in their possession for a long time and B) I ALWAYS, NO MATTER WHAT, QUARANTINE MY SNAKES, regardless of who it came from. So even of they properly quarantined the snake for a year, it'ds still have to pass my quarantine procedure.

So again, I am still giving them a chance to prove themselves to be honest, in the sense that there are real winners.

Sho220, you have a problem with that, build a bridge and get over it. You making this big ordeal doesn't affect my sleep at night, but it's obvious what I say bothers you so much you need to bring me back in. Relax the world's not over.

Omg, now he's not a flipper according to him because he's not selling them! :rolleye2:

http://www.facebook.com/BallBids/posts/334845706530598

I'm so going to get blocked, it's a fun game while it lasts. How deep is he going to dig his hole before he realizes it's too late? Ah dang, I got the quote wrong, it's supposed to be "Hi, I'm Earth, have we met? What a bummer...

He says he's going to deny someone an animal if he finds out they plan to resell it? Even it they won the auction?! That's just bull hockey! Wilbanks will sell to these scamming piles of scum knowing that they are being auctioned off for pennies on the dollar, but somehow ballbids thinks they are going to deny someone an animal because they intend to resell it? Not bashing on Wilbanks at all he has the right to sell a snake to whoever. But for Wilbanks to do this and for them to say they won't allow it...these guys are obviously telling more lies. I wish it would let me post on their wall!

Dude. they crossed a line in my book. 2 hours ago they called out bp.net for making zack look bad. you dont mess with family. And these people here? I call family.....

*livid*

P: Did they delete the post or something? I don't see it anywhere.

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Originally Posted by waltah!

I have zero issue with Wilbanks selling them snakes. That's what the man does for a living.

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its just gonna look bad on his part when these guys gets a bad desease or something in their "facility" and wilbanks name is tagged to it..
after all ,,,,,,,hees there suplier, and has all but admited to it.. cant say that id ever buy a snake from Mr. Wilbanks, but now with all of these people saying there snake comes from him, i think ill stay clear of the name all together..
further more, i know that anybody can get bad luck and end up with something (desease wise) in their collection,, but i look at it like this, people that spends top dollar on something (and earn it) is going to respect it and take care of it. its called pride.... perfect example,,, a man earns a million dollars, hees a milionaire, a crack head wobbles in the gas station, gets a dollar scratch off and wins a million,, a few months later, hees a broke crackhead. hapens all the time..
in conclusion, i dont want nothing to do with a high end animal that wasent earned,,, it leaves too mich room for error... and i persionally wouldent want my name in the hands of people who havent earned it.
and thats all i have to say right now
spooky

I feel so compelled now to order that poster and pose for a picture like steve-o and use it as my avatar. :p

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

To steer clear of Wilbanks just because he sells snakes to these guys is going too far. Wilbanks is a great guy with a great reputation and I will buy snakes from him in the future.

I agree. Its all business, you can't make decisions for anyone but yourself. Wilbanks has amazing animals and is actually what drew me to bps.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by evan385

To steer clear of Wilbanks just because he sells snakes to these guys is going too far. Wilbanks is a great guy with a great reputation and I will buy snakes from him in the future.

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how do you know hees a great guy, you ever met him? I haventhaven't and I'm not saying he isn't a great guy,, but your missing my point. When you get a snake from him, your also buying his name, his pride, and his integrity. When you get a snake from these jokers, at that point, its their snake with his name on it. Those kids have proved , and admited that they really don't know anything about reptiles,, so now, chances are that at some point,,, and it will happen,, people are gonna start getting sub quality sub quality animals,, and guess what, his name will still be on them. Don't get me wrong or misunderstand,, I would like to have a animal from a top breeder like him because I'll know to expect nothing but the best,,,but at this point, just because it has his name on it means very little to me.
these guys might last a little while and he (Mr Wilbanks) will make some money from them, but the true collectors will always out last the fly by nightsrs,,and they remember things
spooky

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

Sadly I see you still want to keep going back and forth

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Nope. Done. Good luck! :)

I have never met Wilbanks nor owned any of his snakes. However, this in my eyes is something which I see as a factor which would prevent me from doing business with him. I fully understand business is business and his job is to sell snakes. But when you are aware of the people purchasing, intent with your animals, and the sheer number of community members who so strongly disagree with the business (ballbids.com) and yet you still choose to do business with them, this is a turn off to me. It is no different then American weapons manufacturers selling off high tech weaponry to Pakistan. They are weapons manufacturers and sell guns. So yes it makes sense for them to sell them weapons. They can say they do not condone or support what the weapons are being used for...but at what point does your moral compass tell you that your off track from whats right. The best part about owning a business is the right to refuse service. For a hobby/business that's always under attack like ours...why bring in and support more bad press about it.

I am fully respectful to Mike and his business because he has amazing animals and has put forth lots of time, energy, and money to get to where he is...I know its not easy to get to that point of success. However, I am simply stating that looking at this situation form the aspects I mentioned, I would not do business with them.

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Originally Posted by evan385

To steer clear of Wilbanks just because he sells snakes to these guys is going too far. Wilbanks is a great guy with a great reputation and I will buy snakes from him in the future.

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Agree, he is a reputable seller and we don't have to KNOW him to know that .. sheesh people. You do know you can add snakes to your cart on his website therefore completely bypassing the "meet the buyer" process? Either way, who cares?

were straying from the subject... its not about what Mr. Wilbanks does. thats his business.
what ballbids is doing is is wrong.. will it crash the market,, i hardly think so,, but the bottom line is so far, their liars.
do they really want to "levil the playing field", i doubt it. if so, they would breed their own snakes, put in the time and money, and then sell them for unbelivably low prices. insted there letting other people pay for their stock and still banking off it. hell, the last time i looked, iv got about 10k invested in my snakes, that includes food and housing. have i made any money? not a penny. its taken me about 4 years to get where im at,,, is that alot, NO, not compaired to some, but iv earned it all..
but beyond having a little pride, what about the welfair of the animals? do yall really think that there going to sit on snakes for 30+ days for a proper quarintine? i doubt that too. as of now (as far as we know) they only have recieved snakes from a well known/trusted breeder,,, but what about tomorrow or the next day? what about when they get a better deal from a sloppy breeder? do you think there really going to care about the health of the animal before they pass it on to you? yea right,, just like they want to levil the playing field. ill be willing to bet that the "quarintine" rack there talking about building (the one they havent got built yet) will be only capible of holding the amount of snakes that they can sell in a week.
as a comunity, we strive to keep healthy animals, to me, thats alot to be proud of..
persionaly, i dont want them littering up my comunity.
spooky

Out of curiosity, what were these pics of Robin? Since the pics got removed before I could look at them and actually I don't even see this post on their wall any more? Was it actually their facility?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...2/ccd32a1a.jpg

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Originally Posted by Boanerges

Out of curiosity, what were these pics of Robin? Since the pics got removed before I could look at them and actually I don't even see this post on their wall any more? Was it actually their facility?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...2/ccd32a1a.jpg

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Here are the pictures- they must be "friends only".. Thankfully I had the forsight to become Zack's "friend" before everything hit the fan.

The "facility":
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7820860_n.jpg

The water dishes and heat tape- I am HOPING that there is more than this but IDK: http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4765424_n.jpg

I'm hoping that these are a mating pair.. Regardless, I see NO heat source and a massively wet and nasty tub..
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...44670916_n.jpg

Went round and round with them last night about the QT procedure. Funny that this is now hidden from their wall; however, you can still see the exchange here:

http://www.facebook.com/BallBids/posts/334825469865955

Are those snakes just laying in water/urine??? Open sided racks in an unfinished basement with that little bit of heat tape and a whole lot of moisture... seems like a breeding ground for RI's to me.

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Originally Posted by Choreboy

Are those snakes just laying in water/urine??? Open sided racks in an unfinished basement with that little bit of heat tape and a whole lot of moisture... seems like a breeding ground for RI's to me.

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You got it. The basement *appears* to be completely unfinished- there is plastic hanging up in several other pictures. Looks like the pair is laying in just water but still- let's give all our snakes RI!! :rage:

Alright, I would understand if maybe one of two bins had some moisture built up in the tub...a water bowl spills, they poop, they pee....then when you see it, you clean it. But for EVERY single bin to look soaked?!?? Come on now! Why would they think it was a good idea to post pictures of their soaked bins and the poor snakes laying in a puddle of water??

This response from Avi really upset me. Yes I know it was to be a joke and sarcastic, but when you are under as much scrutiny from as many different parties as they are, WHY in the WORLD would you say something like this!?/

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...62198471_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by lilscrydvl

This response from Avi really upset me. Yes I know it was to be a joke and sarcastic, but when you are under as much scrutiny from as many different parties as they are, WHY in the WORLD would you say something like this!?/

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...62198471_n.jpg

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Because he doesn't have a brain, just like his other posts... *sigh*
Half of his response seems correct though.... They are living in a gross dark basement..

You know folks....there are PLENTY of real red flags to worry about without having to invent any. All the constant nit picking and assumptions about certain future failure as if were already fact makes everyone involved sound petty, vindictive, and mob-ish. Is this a genuine concern? Or is it a witch-hunt that's become too much fun to let go of?

We've all seen pictures of breeding ball pythons...posted by people we DO trust to take good care of their snakes...and those breeding bins are flat out nasty. Breeding ball pythons are very messy and it's standard practice to not bother them until they're done.

I also know plenty of people who take perfectly good care of their snakes that have less than optimal "facilities" to do it in. Basements that aren't finished. Home made racks. None of that says anything about the character of the person taking care of those animals. There are plenty of OTHER things you can look to to judge character, so why make us all look bad by picking on things that DON'T matter?

Getting bent out of shape because someone said something a bit snarky after what must have been a very long day of constant stress...really? The man is human. Things aren't going the way he'd expected them to. He's being attacked constantly from all directions. And whether or not you believe anything he says, he is at least handling it with some aplomb. So no...a moment of sarcasm is not something worth getting upset about, I don't believe.

Neither is mentioning BP.net. Just because he referred to us in some manner doesn't mean he's attacking us. (Not that I saw, anyhow. If I missed something major, maybe someone will point it out.)

And a host of other things. I am NOT defending these two. I see plenty that makes my eyebrows wing up and my head to shake in dismay. But I see no worth in constantly harping on things already talked about ad nauseum, nor in going on treasure hunts for things to pick on that really have no relevance in the grand scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Getting bent out of shape because someone said something a bit snarky after what must have been a very long day of constant stress...really? The man is human. Things aren't going the way he'd expected them to. He's being attacked constantly from all directions. And whether or not you believe anything he says, he is at least handling it with some aplomb. So no...a moment of sarcasm is not something worth getting upset about, I don't believe.

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Let me just clarify something about this paragraph. I am NOT feeling sorry for them that things haven't gone as they expected. All their troubles, they brought on themselves. No pity from me, whatsoever. I'm just pointing out that the singled out sarcastic statement made at a moment of intense stress is not something worth judging character on.

In the last pic the tubs might be wet from spraying them down to try to get them to breed? You also might not see the heat tape if the tub is pulled out since the heat tape should be all the way in the back. These are only guesses on my part though and since Avi only reads this thread and don't respond any more we won't know their side of it....

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Originally Posted by Boanerges

In the last pic the tubs might be wet from spraying them down to try to get them to breed? You also might not see the heat tape if the tub is pulled out since the heat tape should be all the way in the back. These are only guesses on my part though and since Avi only reads this thread and don't respond any more we won't know their side of it....

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id just about agree with you, but take a closer look at the hatchling rack. you can count how many snakes are in them by counting the ones with condensation in their tubs. but who knows,,,, maby they all got misted minuets before:confused:
spooky

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Originally Posted by JLC

You know folks....there are PLENTY of real red flags to worry about without having to invent any. All the constant nit picking and assumptions about certain future failure as if were already fact makes everyone involved sound petty, vindictive, and mob-ish. Is this a genuine concern? Or is it a witch-hunt that's become too much fun to let go of?

We've all seen pictures of breeding ball pythons...posted by people we DO trust to take good care of their snakes...and those breeding bins are flat out nasty. Breeding ball pythons are very messy and it's standard practice to not bother them until they're done.

I also know plenty of people who take perfectly good care of their snakes that have less than optimal "facilities" to do it in. Basements that aren't finished. Home made racks. None of that says anything about the character of the person taking care of those animals. There are plenty of OTHER things you can look to to judge character, so why make us all look bad by picking on things that DON'T matter?

Getting bent out of shape because someone said something a bit snarky after what must have been a very long day of constant stress...really? The man is human. Things aren't going the way he'd expected them to. He's being attacked constantly from all directions. And whether or not you believe anything he says, he is at least handling it with some aplomb. So no...a moment of sarcasm is not something worth getting upset about, I don't believe.

Neither is mentioning BP.net. Just because he referred to us in some manner doesn't mean he's attacking us. (Not that I saw, anyhow. If I missed something major, maybe someone will point it out.)

And a host of other things. I am NOT defending these two. I see plenty that makes my eyebrows wing up and my head to shake in dismay. But I see no worth in constantly harping on things already talked about ad nauseum, nor in going on treasure hunts for things to pick on that really have no relevance in the grand scheme of things.

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Judy:
Personally speaking, I would not care if the basement was unfinished. I know many who keep reptiles in garages/basements/etc. My concern though is how is the room heated. Throughout this entire situation, my hope was to attempt to educate them on proper husbandry. I agree that it isn't fair to nitpick over someone's room/facility/etc. Regarding the sarcastic comment, I totally understand that sarcasm is a great stress reliever. I'm one of the most sarcastic people I know and in fact, find myself backpeddling quite often because someone does not understand when I am being sarcastic. My frustration with that one statement though comes from the fact that, given the situation they are in, it was not the best choice of words at all. There is a time and a place for sarcasm, and given the fact that the thread was concerning the care of the animals, to come out and make a comment like that really got to me. Perhaps I overreacted, perhaps not. I said not one thing to him regarding the comment though (if you read the thread) and just let it go. The whole reason I posted it here was to basically vent frustrations out over it. I think we all can agree that anyone who would make a comment like that regarding any animal would cause us to raise our eyebrows at least.

I'm not here to attack anyone. Do I think the overall concept is a "good idea"? No. Do I LIKE what it could do for the hobby/industry? No.

My immediate concern though is the health of those animals. That is all. The rest of the stuff (is it legal/what is going to do/etc) is all secondary to me. I've been in their shoes- attempting to start a business without being properly prepared. I know what it is like to be completely overwhelmed and watch your hard work come crashing down in front of your eyes. Thankfully for me it was cakes and truffles. These are animals that we are all passionate about in our hobby.

I just wish that they would take the communities advice/suggestions/etc.

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Originally Posted by Boanerges

In the last pic the tubs might be wet from spraying them down to try to get them to breed? You also might not see the heat tape if the tub is pulled out since the heat tape should be all the way in the back. These are only guesses on my part though and since Avi only reads this thread and don't respond any more we won't know their side of it....

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I doubt highly that the condensation is from being misted... I've had that happen to me before- the room humidifier was not working correctly and pumping steam directly into the tubs. That's my experience so that's all I have to go off of. When I posted the link on the site, I asked where the heat tape was because that was my original assumption.

It could be as simple as over filled water bowls and newspaper bedding. It could be water sprites plaguing them for sins we're best not knowing.

Thing is, we don't know and I don't think we ever will. But this isn't so much about husbandry, we have no indication that they won't do their best to take care of the snakes, which is what we all try to do, our best, except zack, he's not smart enough, but avi is. So, husbandry aside, they LIED. Then they LIED.

And then, thinking they were smarter than all of YOU, they lied again.

I don't care if you could eat off the bottom of their cages, they're not the kind of people I want to give my money to. Whether it's seven bucks for crystal or sixty-five so I can bid on it, they're not getting anything from me but the cold shoulder.

With SO many good people out there is it worth your dignity to stoop so low as to by from a guy you know will lie to your face? What kind of person are you then? They suck, I don't so no money from me.

Simple.

I am so heart broken because i cant comment on there page on facebook for some reason.I dont know why you would possibly block me buddy Zach :8:.Its not like i would post anything INCORRECT about you or your partner Avi (who i think is really your girlfriend).Its really sad we still have a few IDIOTS that are just giving there money away even with all the evidence in front of them :mad:.Well dont come crying to us when you lose your hard earned cash.I know instead of giving your money to those scumbags why not donate it to helping military families get thru these tuff times :salute:.At least it would serve a purpose.

this nrvgonestop person is one L-U-C-K-Y person..... won the last 4 auctions..........:gj:

haha last few posts:

Does anyone find it interesting that the same person has won three different auctions? And is very close to winning a fourth.. seems to have unlimited bids.. I can't help but feel like this could be a bot that is there to keep the price going up..
Like · Comment · 12 minutes ago · Chris Kessler and Daniel A O'Brien like this..


Chuck Gibbs Kinda wondering the same9 minutes ago.
BallBids.com I noticed the same, but it's to be expected. This particular bidder prepared him/herself well for tonights primary auction.7 minutes ago.
Taylor Brinker surprise surprise, they won the fourth. very suspicious to me...7 minutes ago.
Chris Kessler nrvgonestop...LMAO!!!5 minutes ago.
Taylor Brinker many, many people prepared themselves (obvious by the amount of bids) but this same person that has won three other auctions managed to get it? I bet it's a bot and that snake isn't sold to anyone, all of those REAL people trying to win it just wasted a lot of their money...5 minutes ago · 1.
Taylor Brinker either that or a friend just there to help jack up the price..5 minutes ago. L-O-L

and heres there responce:
BallBids.com
We're considering the possibility that third party bidding software was used to control our auctions tonight. We will keep you all posted as to what decision we make.

It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

Hey, at least it's all on the up and up.

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Originally Posted by Redneck_Crow

It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

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And you want to look away but you can't peel your eyes from it...

ok,, ill quit copy pasting after this one,,,, but i pissed myself after i read the responce:
Jessica Moore: Perhaps you could limit the number of times a registered user can win an auction in a month. Many other penny auction sites do this and it prevents people from cheating. This would make other customers much happier and keep people around for the long-term. It also prevents people from using your auction to make a profit by getting items to re-sell at higher prices.4 minutes ago.
BallBids.com: Jessica that is going to happen but, we have to give this guy his snake. He earned it because he bought a lot of bids today! But I assure you that he will be the last person to ever win like this!

Zack:-)a few seconds ago.
hahaha reading between the lines, i see : Jessica that is going to happen but, we have to give this guy his snake. He earned it because he bought a lot of bids today! But I assure you that this will be the last time we get busted like this!

spooky

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

ok,, ill quit copy pasting after this one,,,, but i pissed myself after i read the responce:
Jessica Moore: Perhaps you could limit the number of times a registered user can win an auction in a month. Many other penny auction sites do this and it prevents people from cheating. This would make other customers much happier and keep people around for the long-term. It also prevents people from using your auction to make a profit by getting items to re-sell at higher prices.4 minutes ago.
BallBids.com: Jessica that is going to happen but, we have to give this guy his snake. He earned it because he bought a lot of bids today! But I assure you that he will be the last person to ever win like this!

Zack:-)a few seconds ago.
hahaha reading between the lines, i see : Jessica that is going to happen but, we have to give this guy his snake. He earned it because he bought a lot of bids today! But I assure you that this will be the last time we get busted like this!

spooky

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:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Aaaaannd Game over.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Virus

Aaaaannd Game over.

:rolleyes:

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Did he actually admit that they got busted? O.O I hope so :D

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Originally Posted by evan385

Did he actually admit that they got busted? O.O I hope so :D

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no dude,,,, that was just a quote from me trying to be funny..
DISCLAIMER: he DID NOT admit to getting busted:colbert:
spooky

Awww okay, I was really hoping their ship had sunk :( Oh well it won't last long now :banana:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

and heres there responce:
BallBids.com
We're considering the possibility that third party bidding software was used to control our auctions tonight. We will keep you all posted as to what decision we make.

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I was just going to post this :P

I'm blocked from their FB page too now...Guess they can't handle the truth!

This is great!

I searched the thread for this but I might have missed it -

USARK's Facebook page - Quote "If you have LIKED BallBids.com... UNLIKE them NOW! They are BAD NEWS!"

Aw dang I'm blocked and he deleted my comments...sad face

I hope all the people bidding realize that the "third party" (if it's not them or a friend) that hacked the site could easily have everyone's credit information, fun times.

Someone should start a "shut down ballbids.com" page :)

I have FB accounts for all my dogs so it will be a fun few days :). Lets see if I can get them all blocked. Oh, and they are deleting posts. Way to show you can be trusted guys, keep the wool over the newbies eyes. :colbert::colbert: