Opinions on breeding young / small females

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Hi Justin, thanks for you insight. From my understanding, what you described seems to be the consensus. Breeding smaller females can be done, but may not be the best in the long run not because their health but because it will take longer for them to start laying large clutches.

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Actually I kind of disagree with this. In my experience, the smaller to mid sized girls are more likely to lay every year. Perhaps because it takes less time to get them back up to they're ideal breeding weight. Whereas many of my largest girls are more likely to take every other year off. Personally I'd rather get a 5-6 egg clutch every year then a 10-11 egg clutch every other year.

I too go with the 1500 g rule, and will under no circumstance breed one that is lighter. My girl that just layed was 2000 before laying and now shes 1100 right after. She was 1800+ when i paired her.Her eggs were 612 g. She has eaten a bit already so I will weigh her agian soon. Just from that alone I couldnt see breeding a small female just incase that female too lost alot, then her life would be in danger.
I bought a female last year in hopes to breed her, and she was sold to me as a breedable female. She was supposed to be 1300g, so I thought a couple hundered grams gained wouldnt be long. Well this girl was actually less than 1100 and she had eating issues. So for the last year I have been working on her feeding and letting her gain weight slowly. She is now 1400gs. So if she doesnt gain the weight with her normal freedings by fall then she will not be bred.
As far as my pastel, I cant wait till she is big enough simply becuase I want a bee. Some might try to breed her this season, shes close to 1000g but I wont so looks like another year or more before I get a bee.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Actually I kind of disagree with this. In my experience, the smaller to mid sized girls are more likely to lay every year. Perhaps because it takes less time to get them back up to they're ideal breeding weight. Whereas many of my largest girls are more likely to take every other year off. Personally I'd rather get a 5-6 egg clutch every year then a 10-11 egg clutch every other year.

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Good point Mark.

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Originally Posted by Kryptonian

I too go with the 1500 g rule, and will under no circumstance breed one that is lighter. My girl that just layed was 2000 before laying and now shes 1100 right after. She was 1800+ when i paired her.Her eggs were 612 g. She has eaten a bit already so I will weigh her agian soon. Just from that alone I couldnt see breeding a small female just incase that female too lost alot, then her life would be in danger.

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Hi, from my experience smaller females lay smaller clutches and smaller eggs, so laying a clutch of eggs would not put the females life in danger. For example, one of my 1200 girls layed four eggs. She now weighs approximately 900 grams, and is eating great. Your female lost 900 grams, but she layed a large clutch of large eggs. The egg ratio is the same though.

Alright guys/gals. I got a interesting point/experience this last year.
I personally have always thought the 1500 gram rule. Thats what I've heard through all over the net and from my friends. This last year one of my largest girls (Well over 1800 grams) became egg bound with the last two eggs. As far as I know, she is well over two years old. Now, the other end of the coin. One of the normal, wild types I bought from a friend this year laid 5 eggs for me. (Now he shound not have tried to breed her IMO, so don't yell at me, I know this was dumb.) When I weighed her after she laid eggs and she was 800 grams!!!! With the eggs she could have weighed no more than 1100 grams! Now she laid fine and the eggs are still cooking in the 'bator, but my 1800 gram girl got egg bound with the same number of eggs? Now the egg size is quite different, but it was the same number.... I still tell anyone getting into the hobby, buying from me to wait for 1500 grams... but they're animals... there is no one in the wild saying "Oh no! wait until you're heavier until you breed!!" I'm not supporting those who breed young/light... Just showing my experiences.

My opinion is this...in the wild they will breed whenever they are ready. They dont sit there and eat and eat, climb onto a scale and refuse a male suitor if they're not making weight. Prey is hard enough to come by, who's to say that a 900 gm female or a 1100gm female will refuse breeding in the wild? At the end of the day we captively breed WILD animals, who have their own WILD instincts and they themselves know better than you or I when they are ready to take.

I see good points from both sides, but I will continue to go with 1500g. That way you are likely to get a bigger clutch with bigger eggs which will be bigger babies. Especially with morphs. If I want to make a bee I think ill have a better chance when my female is over 1500, as she will prob have more eggs. The wait is definately gruelling but will be worth it in the end.:)

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

The big hurry is creating a new morph that I do not have, and also producing morphs to sell. For example, this year I have a pastel het ghost female that is approximately 1200 grams and 1.5 years old. I also have a pastel ghost to breed to her. Some people would wait to breed her until the following year. I decided to breed her this year. If she goes for me, then I could possibly produce super pastel ghosts this season as opposed to waiting until next season. I am also in the same boat with a het pied female and a pied male. If she goes for me, then I could produce pieds this season. I do not feel that it in any way harms the females. So why wait? In my opinion, if the females are ready, then they will give me eggs. If they are not, then they will not.

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I'm curious - did she go for you this year?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I'm curious - did she go for you this year?

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Hi, no she didn't. I tried to breed three 1200 gram females this season. Two did not go for me and one did. The pastel het ghost female never produced follicles, or at least ones that I could feel; although, she did lock with my pastel ghost male a few times. The het pied female did produce follicles, but the male was not ready. The yellow belly that did give me eggs produced four perfect eggs that are still in the bator.

Thanks Eddie!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Thanks Eddie!

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You're welcome.