I need some moral support here people

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Originally Posted by Loft Lizard

To the OP.

Glad to see you are concerned with the welfare of your feeders.

I am a graduate of the "FrankyKeno School of Rodent Breeding and Feeding", and feel that for those of us that feed live, respecting the feeder prey is critical.

I raise all my own prey. My breeders are my pets, and like Franky I retire my females and/or rehome them.

I feed live to my pythons, and I also CO2 rats for my colubrids.

Feeding rats IS part of having a snake. But I will not say the "feed it and get over it thing"... I do not buy that. I think it does take time to really grasp it and to comfortable with it.

It takes a bit of confidence and a concept of the bigger picture. If you feed awkwardly or are not efficient, it does not allow your snake a clean strike or an efficient kill. Which just makes it worse... I had been there, and those experiences are the ones that help you learn.

Especially if you want to provide a quick death for the rodent.

Glad you have a supportive partner.

I can tell from your excitement over his initial feed that perhaps a bit of your hesitation is lifting? :)

My first BP did not eat for 4 months... I tried everything... I even debrained a mouse. Think feeding live is hard... debraining a mouse is something I NEVER want to do again. I offered him live and BAM!... I never looked back. I was amazed to watch it and see just how efficient he was.

Far more efficient than all the tricks I was using that were only serving to stress him out, rather than giving him what he needed... a meal.

Bruce

PS: I think sometimes we forget that stigma is attached not only to snakes, but to snake owners. And that cultural myths/mores prevail regarding what is humane and inhumane. It is easy for people to say "that is cruel!" and if we hear it enough in our lives, we have that disconnect from what is the reality of a snake's live... and that they truly are (as are all animals) a perfect form of evolution.

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Wow what great insight! I am relieved that he ate...it just lifts the load that thinking something might be wrong with him or the setup brought. I really do want him to be happy and healthy. I'm nowhere near ready to participate in the event yet but I can be supportive that it gets done when I'm not around. This is only the first time so hopefully I will get there....and if not then its wonderful to see those SUPPORTIVE people out there :salute:

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Originally Posted by spix14

Anyway the point I'm making is this, don't totally give up on f/t. You may have to feed him live a time or two to get him eating but with a bit of work I have faith that he could be switched to f/t. Did you ever post what your temps and humidity are? That could be the problem. There are also many methods of offering f/t to a snake, have you tried all of them?

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I was going to say. Are you sure that that there isn't a good reason the snake isn't taking f/t? I say this because sometimes if a snake isn't taking f/t, it's because there's husbandry problems - temps or humidity isn't right, enclosure is too big, etc. Also, if you already own rats or mice, you could try "pre-scenting" the room for the snake to make it more excited, so that when you introduce the f/t mouse it might have a stronger feeding response. Another way is to rub the f/t mouse on some bedding from the live mice to make it have a stronger scent.

You might have already tried all the tricks in the book to get him/her to eat f/t, and if so I apologize. I'm not against live feeding, but since you seem to be uncomfortable with it, I just wonder if you tried EVERYTHING before switching to live. Further more, a few weeks is not long at all for a ball python to go without food. When I first got my ball, I offered f/t mice, and she did not start eating for 3 weeks. After that, she ate every week. It was probably because she was a bit nervous at first in her new home, and wasn't comfortable enough to eat yet.

I used to have people come into the pet store where I worked all the time, wanting to buy live food because their snake hadn't eaten in a couple weeks. Then, a month later they don't want to feed live anymore - too expensive, the mice smell bad, not exciting anymore.... whatever reason - but their snake won't even look twice at f/t. Converting from live back to frozen after a snake has established a feeding routine is much harder, so you might want to take another stab at the f/t thing if you don't want to feed live.

ok i think all of you people are missing the bigger picture...FIRST OF ALL...captive bred ball pythons are wrong to have as pet snakes in the first place, whats a pet snake? its a snake that should naturally be in the wild but that you actually bred to be a pet snake...the term "pet snake" should NOT even be around...we all keep snakes for some sort of personal or profitable interest that we may have....SO feeding live rats/mice is morally very wrong, its not nature in any way and how fast it dies is irrelavant...your still controlling its death, not nature....i still do it...BUT i know its wrong...and since we all live in relativly comfortable situations we think its ok to keep these snakes..i think we need to distinguish between nature and your large hands controlling the death

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Originally Posted by Igor

ok i think all of you people are missing the bigger picture...FIRST OF ALL...captive bred ball pythons are wrong to have as pet snakes in the first place, whats a pet snake? its a snake that should naturally be in the wild but that you actually bred to be a pet snake...the term "pet snake" should NOT even be around...we all keep snakes for some sort of personal or profitable interest that we may have....SO feeding live rats/mice is morally very wrong, its not nature in any way and how fast it dies is irrelavant...your still controlling its death, not nature....i still do it...BUT i know its wrong...and since we all live in relativly comfortable situations we think its ok to keep these snakes..i think we need to distinguish between nature and your large hands controlling the death

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Lol. Cats and Dogs didnt' start out living in houses either. Guess we should get rid of all of them. Morally very wrong? Who are you to say what's morally wrong? You religious? I've never seen anything that says don't feed live rats to snakes in the Bible.

Are we not nature? Us killing a mouse is very nature. We're animals just like the rest of the world.

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Originally Posted by Igor

ok i think all of you people are missing the bigger picture...FIRST OF ALL...captive bred ball pythons are wrong to have as pet snakes in the first place, whats a pet snake? its a snake that should naturally be in the wild but that you actually bred to be a pet snake...the term "pet snake" should NOT even be around...we all keep snakes for some sort of personal or profitable interest that we may have....SO feeding live rats/mice is morally very wrong, its not nature in any way and how fast it dies is irrelavant...your still controlling its death, not nature....i still do it...BUT i know its wrong...and since we all live in relativly comfortable situations we think its ok to keep these snakes..i think we need to distinguish between nature and your large hands controlling the death

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Igor, you got your snake what a month ago? In my very quick scan through your posts I see that in that relatively short time you've had trouble setting it up, it didn't eat very well and when it did eat you handled it so much you caused it to regurge.

Perhaps you might want to give responsible snake keeping just a teeny tad longer try before you stand in judgement on whether or not our members have a right to have a "pet snake"......m'kay. :)

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Originally Posted by Igor

captive bred ball pythons are wrong to have as pet snakes in the first place, whats a pet snake?

its a snake that should naturally be in the wild but that you actually bred to be a pet snake...the term "pet snake" should NOT even be around...we all keep snakes for some sort of personal or profitable interest that we may have....

SO feeding live rats/mice is morally very wrong, its not nature in any way and how fast it dies is irrelavant...your still controlling its death, not nature....i still do it...

BUT i know its wrong...and since we all live in relativly comfortable situations we think its ok to keep these snakes..

i think we need to distinguish between nature and your large hands controlling the death

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Igor, what do you think pets are? Captives that humans keep? How is keeping a dog or cat different for someone that gets the same pleasure from owning a room full of snakes and reptiles?

Humans feel attached to nature and want it in our lives. We bring plants and animals into our home because we enjoy them. We domesticate animals to tolerate and for some to enjoy our companionship like dogs and cats.

I bring reptiles into our home for their primal beauty and "wild center".

Just because you may not get the same pleasure and enjoyment as I do, does not mean it's "morally" wrong to keep any reptiles or feed them what they eat.

Given the hypocrisy in your post, I hardly think your anyone to judge us on why or how any pet owners keep their animals.

But again, thanks for calling us morally wrong death mongers messing with nature. :rolleyes:


Quote of the day
"Are we not nature? Us killing a mouse is very nature. We're animals just like the rest of the world." :bow: **couldnt give you any more rep points**

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Originally Posted by Igor

ok i think all of you people are missing the bigger picture...FIRST OF ALL...captive bred ball pythons are wrong to have as pet snakes in the first place, whats a pet snake? its a snake that should naturally be in the wild but that you actually bred to be a pet snake...the term "pet snake" should NOT even be around...we all keep snakes for some sort of personal or profitable interest that we may have....SO feeding live rats/mice is morally very wrong, its not nature in any way and how fast it dies is irrelavant...your still controlling its death, not nature....i still do it...BUT i know its wrong...and since we all live in relativly comfortable situations we think its ok to keep these snakes..i think we need to distinguish between nature and your large hands controlling the death

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so why do you have a snake if you think it is wrong to keep them as pets? Your hypocrisy doesnt make sense

Igor, I just had to show your post to everyone in my office. :rofl:

Well now that this thread has been hijacked by the lynching of igor, i will post the successful feeding story on a seperate thread :D

Also, I cannot give you any more rep points frankykeno, but as soon as I can, I will!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Igor, you got your snake what a month ago? In my very quick scan through your posts I see that in that relatively short time you've had trouble setting it up, it didn't eat very well and when it did eat you handled it so much you caused it to regurge.

Perhaps you might want to give responsible snake keeping just a teeny tad longer try before you stand in judgement on whether or not our members have a right to have a "pet snake"......m'kay. :)

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hey...now you are just assuming facts...i had my snake for 3 months now...and it didnt eat for the 4 months...and so far i have been feeding live ann all have been successful....so please dont assume....second of all,,, why the heck did someone mention the bible??????? who here follos the bible anyways? i came to the conclusion that is morally wrong because you are controlling its death, not nature, you are conciously controlling its death...that is not nature, if there were bigger beings on this earth as an exagerated example...and you were kept as a pet, and fed to an aligator....would that be nature? look at the bigger picture