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I will add that loosing one or more dogs on a hog in a pen is not "sport" not to me and shouldn't be to anyone. Hog + Pen + Dog = training to be used sparingly and extremly controlled. Hog Dogging in general is not a hog in a pen, it is a hunt for wild boar and feral hogs. The sport is hog hunting that includes baying, and hog catching.

Putting a hog in a pen and letting loose a dog is not a sport. Any time a hog is in a pen the dogs are on leads and the only reason they require a hog do to be used is to make sure the dog is capable of the work on a hunt, and to make sure the dog does not target inappropriate areas such as the nose, legs, etc.

I agree with Slarti though, I don't quite see what being a vegetarian or seeing a bull fight or a slaughterhouse has to do with this, Stangs :) being against animal cruelty (which I agree loosing dogs to attack and fight a hog in a pen aka boar baiting, is animal cruelty) doesn't mean you are or have to be a vegetarian.

Just because one cruelty is worse than another does not negate that both are cruel practices. No one needs to go to the opposite extreme of PETA to be a jerk who wants to fight pit dogs, thinks seeing kittens flattened on the highway is funny, and squishes helpless worms to make kids cry.

Pit bulls were bred for fighting each other, does that mean pit fighting dogs is okay too now?

I disagree with the "sport" of hog dogging, while agreeing with USING dogs to hunt hogs. I agree with training dogs on captured hogs, but I don't see how that is a sport. The dog sees the hog in a pen, and that can't train it completely. They still have to run one down to hunt it. So what's the sport in setting a dog on a penned hog?

I could see hog HUNTING with dogs being a "sport" like regular hunting. Just not penned "hunts" or whatever you want to call it.

I'm sure that the media has found the worst possible cases of it, and that those folks are giving the "sport" of hog hunting a bad name. But it's just not a sport to me to see a dog biting on a penned hog for fun. Training maybe, sport?

We use dogs to hunt raccoons and also to run deer here in Florida(not me personally, but the surrounding area where I live). There's bad and good folks with that too.

Whats better, Rounding up and shooting pigs, or having your dogs round the pigs up and you shoot them. Doesnt seem to matter to me. Rock on!

[QUOTE=wolfy-hound;714411] I disagree with the "sport" of hog dogging, while agreeing with USING dogs to hunt hogs. I agree with training dogs on captured hogs, but I don't see how that is a sport. The dog sees the hog in a pen, and that can't train it completely. They still have to run one down to hunt it. So what's the sport in setting a dog on a penned hog?

I could see hog HUNTING with dogs being a "sport" like regular hunting. Just not penned "hunts" or whatever you want to call it. [QUOTE]


Penning a hog and letting a dog in the pen is not sport in any way. That is boar baiting/hog baiting.

To me, the sport it the hunting. There is no sport in penning a hog and loosing dogs on it. The old competitions were for the purpose of grading and scoring the new dogs or allowing an established hunting dog to gain a title as proof of quality/temperament/working ability. But that, to me and several others, is not the sport. That is training and work under the most controlled circumstances available. Considering how it got warped and how people were using the terms hog dogging and hog catching to describe boar baiting and things did get out of hand I don't hold anything against someone who views this as cruel - they don't have anything but actual cruelty to base their opinion on. The media won't show the right way to do things, or how responsible people are and what they do. That isn't a good story, they are going to focus on the bad people out there and sensationalize everything related to dogs, hogs, and people.

For the pen + hog + dog - the training aspect is to make sure the dog is actually going to be able to catch on a hog and not get seriously hurt or killed by not having the drive it takes to do the work. You cannot send a dog out on a hunt not knowing if it will catch - you could get your dog and yourself killed! Also, a dog usually needs to be shown the proper area to bite and you must address any issues with a dog trying to bite the legs or nose. You don't know if a dog is going to go for the legs or the hindquarters or the nose of a hog until the dog goes for it - and the dog is on a leash and can be restrained and prevented from going for any inappropriate area on the hog. The dogs that will only go for the legs or other areas aside from the ear are never taken on a hunt and removed from the program.

Also - there are two seperate dogs used in hog hunting. Bay dogs, and catch dogs.

Bay dogs track, find, separate, and bay the hog with no biting or physical contact.

The catch dog is kept with the handler, never tracking, never baying, and only when the hog is cornered the handler sends the catch dog(s), it grabs the ear and pins the hog so the hunter can go secure the hog by back legs, the dog is called off and the hog is tied and transported or killed quickly by the hunter/handler.

The pen does not provide exact hunting experience for either the bay dog or the catch dog - it is a refining tool to proof out the dogs. Bay dogs are proofed that they are taught not to bite and to make sure they will chase, corner, and bay. Otherwise they are taught to track completely seperately or with a captive hog taken to lay track etc. Catch dogs, as stated above, must be proofed to ensure they will not bite the legs, nose, etc. and that they really will commit to the catch. A dog that won't commit to a catch could get killed, and nobody wants that.

after reading these posts I have come to one conclusion... these hog-dogging "sports-training" seems to be no crueler than your run-of-the-mill rodeo where cowboys throw calves around, piss off bulls and ride-em, etc, which everyone happens to love...

Goose, everyone is entitled to their opinions on various sports.

For bull riding.. ah I'm not a fan of western spurs in general. The only thing cruel about bull riding is the flanch cinch heh I'm glad I'm not a bull. Otherwise those animals are very very very very well cared for and worth more than most people's houses. Those bulls love to buck, are bred and raised for it. I think it is more cruel to the riders than the bulls, but that is just MHO. The animals are not mistreated and in fact most of those bulls are quite laid back and friendly. The greatest bull of all time (another opinion :D) Little Yellow Jacket is really quite a nice critter and the owners go in the pen and pet him and feed him.

I love rodeo for the equine events of barrel racing, team penning/team sorting, and cutting.

For the pen and training aspect of hog hunting/hog catching - it is unfortunately necessary but every precaution is taken to ensure no or very little damage to the animals involved. Most hogs in a training pen are only ever used once or twice in their entire lives and never bleed from a dog. Ever. The point is not to hurt the hog, it is to properly train the dog.

I love the rodeo... I was actually supporting you by noting that most people already promote a "sport" that is no less "cruel" if looked at under a microscope.

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Originally Posted by Gooseman

after reading these posts I have come to one conclusion... these hog-dogging "sports-training" seems to be no crueler than your run-of-the-mill rodeo where cowboys throw calves around, piss off bulls and ride-em, etc, which everyone happens to love...

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The bulls have a flanks strape tied around their flank, it doesn't harm the bulls at all. They just arn't used to it being on so they want it off.

Are you talking about cattle roping or steer wrestling?

I like Beaudations(sp) myself. Great bull.

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Originally Posted by BulldogBalls

I agree with Slarti though, I don't quite see what being a vegetarian or seeing a bull fight or a slaughterhouse has to do with this, Stangs :) being against animal cruelty (which I agree loosing dogs to attack and fight a hog in a pen aka boar baiting, is animal cruelty) doesn't mean you are or have to be a vegetarian.

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Just saying that some animal cruelty haters of the sort on livestock sports(or there keeping),etc, wont eat meat because the way most hog houses, or even the occational feed lot are kept, Hot shot usage...etc. Im all against animal cruelty don't get me wrong though.

And bull fights are nearly the same as what they claim as the hog doging is, a bull in a pen with a predator that WILL kill it. See what I am saying?:D

Yes, I know what you are saying but hog dogging/hog catching is not done with intent of a fight or pitting a dog against a hog - that is boar/hog baiting and is rightfully illegal.

I am not against rodeo and I know flanch straps/cinches are not cruel in the sense that they do not cause pain, but it is uncomfortable and the point is to encourage and increase bucking. I don't think they are cruel I was being sassy. But yes I think it would be uncomfortable having a strap cinching your wang and don't blame the bulls their ill tempered tendencies while in the arena and chute.

I also love Bodacious. He is a great bull, one of the best of all time but in general Little Yellow Jacket is my favorite. I don't think I'll ever see a ride as great as Gaffney's on LYJ for 96.5. Him being 3 time bull of the year and I think he is a gorgeous animal to boot. I do like other bulls, including this years star Scene of the Crash and I love Panda, Pandoras Box, Hotel California and a big handful of others.

And sorry Goose.. didn't read your post properly :)