Anyone catch it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLG

Strictly discussing the genetic engineering angle (although I'd be happy to discuss the religious POV), I personally think that specific genetic engineering for designer traits would rob us, as keepers, of the "magic" of hitting odds within a particular clutch. Would there be as much satisfaction in producing a clutch of 6 pieds out of 6 eggs from het x het as there would from genetically masterminding this to happen through controlled engineering? Absolutely not.

The fact that we never quite know what we could get when pairing animals up - and spending a season dreaming of what we could produce - is what keeps a lot of folks working with these animals to start with.

If creating color mutations was so cut-and-dried that anyone could have predictable results every time, it would strip us of the defeats & successes that intrinsically make genetic morphs so much fun (and a more than a bit stomach-knotting!!!) to work with in the first place!

Just my $.02.

K~

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Okay, are we talking mass producing snakes through cloning now?

I have to say, it sounds like getting these snakes out there is a good thing, BUT more public awareness has to be made about the proper care.

I'm afraid that if these animals dropped in value so much, where a pied cost a few hundred, we'd see a TON of impulse buyers getting their hands on what we consider, high-end and extremely valuable.

I don't want a plague and epidemic of people buying snakes for a lark, and then learning that these animals can get a good size, and will live for 20+ years. The boom, and afterwards the crash, and release of countless snakes into the wild. Many dieing, and many living in an unnatural enviroment, hurting our own fauna and flora.

Look at how the iguanas were? Or still are in many cases. People buy them thinking they are cool, and we have literally thousands in shelters, and even more down south being released when they get too big.

Not saying BP's get too big, or need specialized care by any stretch of the imagination, but I can already see the mistreatment of snakes and reptiles skyrocketing when they are too affordable.

But the boas, and large pythons are already dumped now, it's almost nothing to dump a $100-$500 snake, but I bet ya they would reconsider just dumping a $5000 snake.

A couple of things to consider to maybe offer a different perspective.

1.) A transgenic animal is a bit different than a Gene Knock-out animal. A transgenic animal carries a transgene, a gene foreign to the animal somewhere in its genome. A gene knock-out carries a different allele at one of its natural loci. In other words, it has had one of its alleles replaced by a new allele through a gene replacement method. Whole animal cloning (somatic nuclear transfer) is also a different method and has not been done in reptiles (I’m not sure about birds).

2.) Genetic engineering methods currently have a lot of chance involved in them. They are hardly genetically masterminding or controlled engineering at this point in time. Maybe someday they will be with nanotechnology and such…but currently there is a lot of “stomach-knotting” and “finger-crossing” with the current genetic manipulation methods.

When introducing a foreign gene into a species with methods discussed in the patent on producing transgenic snakes discussed above, one has to hope that the foreign gene enters the germ-line. If it doesn’t you may produce a glowing green snake but the trait wont be heritable because it wont get put into the sperm or eggs (the gametes) of the animal.

Now technology is always getting better. The transgenesis method described in the Seed article could be applicable to reptiles someday. But again you dealing with living things and there’s a lot of luck involved. Notice that the method involves screening of offspring.

3.) “Masterminding”-Gene replacement methods (A gene knock-out or Knock-in) require a very costly investment of time. As pointed out previous threads we don’t know anything about the DNA sequence of any of these color morph genes. Without this basic research we can not hope to replace the wild-type gene with the pied gene. To replace a gene you must create carefully engineered DNA targeting construct with markers for positive and negative selection. (Positive for homologous recombination, negative for random insertion.) With current methods you still have to use Mendelian breeding pairs to get a homozygous animal. Truthfully at this time its easier to acquire a natural het and breed it to another natural het. Gene replacement technology is used by scientists to produce animal models of human genetic diseases, and is no where technologically or economically suitable for making tailor made pets. Traditional breeding methods are simply better at this right now

4.) Even if we could get it to the “pet masterminding stage”—some people like to design, while other people like to gamble.

5.) Selective breeding was the first method of genetic engineering of species. There really is no such thing as a “natural” pet…….The variety of dog breeds we have today were tailored for people’s needs. The first domestication of dogs may have been more by their choice, as I pointed out in a previous thread. But the breeds we have today were engineered by people over a long time. And some of those tailor made modifications made through slow selective breeding had negative health effects for the animal. They perhaps just weren’t as transparent right away as the newer methods.

6.) Transgenic pets have the potential to expand the gene pool of a species. Or in snake industry terms they have the potential to expand the number of base morphs/mutations. This may or may not be a threat to the hobbyist breeder/small business breeder. Imagine Green Pudding albinos or Enhanced Blue Fluorescing Leucistics. There is a potential for new designer morphs.

The company that owns the patent on the world’s first transgenic fish, Glofish, will not allow breeding without permission. But this is common in a lot of pet trades, many people have to spend extra for breeding rights for AKC puppies. Some of the big guys and gals in the snake world may be willing to strike up some kind of deal. After all they own a lot of the more stunning “natural” base morphs. Natural in terms of happenstance.

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Anyone catch it?