Help! New BP Strikes Frequently

I agree that using UTH's properly is far from reckless but the rest of your point is based on a completely false premise - that there is only one type/manufacturer and that they all perform identically.

I didn't make that claim. I only know of the details of the one I am using - the Zoo-med.

PS, I'm not condeming the species - and to suggest I am - well that is compelte daft. I'm suggesting that the literature should be stronger as to the possibility that some can consistently be 'agressive'. Additionally - I never based this on only mine BP, but on further research of others who have owned them.

Someone agreed that it is not reckless to use the heat pads and I thank them for posting. they also posted on using a r-stat - if I may add a few comments on that.

On the post regarding spending $3 for a r-stat to get the temps right - well, I monitored the heat pad for quite some time in several spots using both a heat gun and a digital probe. The pad itself is about 102 degrees - however the base of the tank is 1/4 glass with a 1/4 inch plexi-glass liner then covered with a substrate. I measured w/o the substrate and with the substrate - both read in the low eighties a little less on the substrate. I monitored these for about 2 weeks before ordering the BP.

It all depends how these are uses as to whether or not a r-stat is needed - clearly if you are using a tub then the snake is going to be much less isolated from the element itself. But a word of caution on dimmers used as a power consuming regulator - they use a process called half-wave rectification to dim bulbs (effectively removing part of the sine wave in an alternating current) - this is horribly unpredictable and prone to power spikes during failures as a result of quick discharges or failures of the silicon controlled rectifier circuitry used to regulate the sine wave.

However, recall that the zoo med pads are almost self protected as spikes of significant size and duration will burnout the thin nichrome elements.

Anyway - I think you are better off adjusting the distance then using a dimmer or dump a solid $50 and get a true rheostat

Hi,


Agreed - you merely used this knowledge of one specific product within a whole range of products to tell us we were talking nonsense when we stated UTH's needed regulation.

We weren't.

If you had said "the specific UTH (make,model,year of manufacture) I own does not need regulation" we'd still try to explain to you the reasons why it might be a good idea but would have had less worry about other people reading this thread, assuming it applied to theirs as well, and burning the bejeesus out of their poor snake.


dr del

dr. del,

I have continually posted in this thread that this all boils :-) down to due diligence which requires measuring the behavior of the product, using it correctly, and understanding what it does and how it does it.

It is not me who has been unclear - it has been many others who have twisted my posts and other's posts and/or inferred where no such inferrence was made.

But Thank you very much for trying to correct my errant behavior it is a noble cause.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMadNucleus

PS, I'm not condeming the species - and to suggest I am - well that is compelte daft. I'm suggesting that the literature should be stronger as to the possibility that some can consistently be 'agressive'. Additionally - I never based this on only mine BP, but on further research of others who have owned them.

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Hi,

To be honest any book that felt that needed to be said would probably start with "this book is best read with eyes open". Some things are so basic I feel stating them aloud is robbing darwinism of the right of expression. Sorry that's just how I feel about it.

Your saying the basic description of the species behaviour should have a sidebar explaining it fits into the same pattern as every other living animal on earth? It doesn't need to be stronger the reader needs to be more aware.

Intresting information on the dimmer though - over here everything I have seen sold as dimmers in the diy stores are rheostats. I guess it never occured to me that over there was any different.


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMadNucleus

dr. del,

I have continually posted in this thread that this all boils :-) down to due diligence which requires measuring the behavior of the product, using it correctly, and understanding what it does and how it does it.

It is not me who has been unclear - it has been many others who have twisted my posts and other's posts and/or inferred where no such inferrence was made.

But Thank you very much for trying to correct my errant behavior it is a noble cause.

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Lol,

Fair enough,

It's a problem using blanket terms in a specifics laden argument really.:)

As bad as it feels to be on the end of one of these threads (and I've been there myself on several occaisons :D ) most of the time it boils down to misunderstandings of both motives and arguments.

It's not like any of the participants wants to hurt the snakes in question or anything - quite the opposite in fact.

Hope everything works out for you - just don't tell anyone they don't need thermostats without doing the same research on their UTH that you did on yours.:P


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMadNucleus

Well, now I'm confused - much of the literature I've read indicates 75-80 is fine for the evening and 80-90 is ok for the day. In fact the book 'guide to owning a python':

"...77 deg to 88 deg during the day, reduced to 68-75 during the evening."

There is no way these heatpads could burn the BP - I have pressed my hand tightly against them for a few minutes, after they were on for the whole day (prior to getting my BP) and they feel mildly warm - that's about it.

I have 3 hides in the tank, but he seems to only use one of them - I think I may have to replace the others with smaller hides.

The hallogens provide a basking area as they only light half the tank and the red's light/heat the other half during the evening.

The heatpads are not on a thermostat and I used a probe on them and the temp of the floor only registers about 82.

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If you use an undertank heater, get a thermostat. I recently had the bottom of Kobi's tank fracture because the UTH got too hot. It had always been fine before, I could keep my hand on it and it didn't hurt, but then one evening I heard a loud POP and went over to her tank, and it felt like a hot frying pan! For some strange reason, the UTH malfunctioned and got so hot it cracked the glass. If I had had it on a thermo, even with the malfunction it probably wouldnt have gotten that hot. Just an FYI IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMadNucleus

Someone agreed that it is not reckless to use the heat pads and I thank them for posting. they also posted on using a r-stat - if I may add a few comments on that.

On the post regarding spending $3 for a r-stat to get the temps right - well, I monitored the heat pad for quite some time in several spots using both a heat gun and a digital probe. The pad itself is about 102 degrees - however the base of the tank is 1/4 glass with a 1/4 inch plexi-glass liner then covered with a substrate. I measured w/o the substrate and with the substrate - both read in the low eighties a little less on the substrate. I monitored these for about 2 weeks before ordering the BP. Ok, so I guess you don't really have any issues with burnning, but it sounds like you might need a UTH that will make it warmer than low 80's. Then in that case you would need to regulate it with a t-stat/r-stat.

It all depends how these are uses as to whether or not a r-stat is needed - clearly if you are using a tub then the snake is going to be much less isolated from the element itself. But a word of caution on dimmers used as a power consuming regulator - they use a process called half-wave rectification to dim bulbs (effectively removing part of the sine wave in an alternating current) - this is horribly unpredictable and prone to power spikes during failures as a result of quick discharges or failures of the silicon controlled rectifier circuitry used to regulate the sine wave. Sure any thing can fail but thats why I check on my snakes several times a day. You seem like you know everything but yet you are the one that does not have your snakes set up as the recommended standard. :confused:

However, recall that the zoo med pads are almost self protected as spikes of significant size and duration will burnout the thin nichrome elements.

Anyway - I think you are better off adjusting the distance then using a dimmer or dump a solid $50 and get a true rheostat AGAIN you are the one that seems to need to make adjustments to your set up to achieve appropriate temperatures. As my temps are always where they are supposed to be. Good Luck...

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

We ended up covering the UTH with a ceramic casserole dish that is under the CHE anyway to keep our humidity from dropping so much. So he'll get warmer water

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Id keep an eye on that the warm water. Might not be to big of a thing. If cleaned everyday or so. Can get algae and all kinds of bacteria from the water being heated by the UTH.

To address the aggressive/biting nature and a ball python's suitability as a "pet". Speaking from our experience with 18 of them over the past few years I can only say this. I've been bitten once. That snake was one we were working with, was highly stressed, highly defensive and an adult that had been dumped in a local, privately owned pet store so there was no background data on her life prior to the day we brought her home. So that's one bite, over time and with handling a good number of snakes of various ages under variable conditions.

Now we've had dogs that as puppies were quite prone to nipping, cats that were quick to scratch if they were in the mood for it. Our society however doesn't exclude either species as "excellent pets". Snakes are excellent pets for the right owner, much as a dog or cat is for a committed owner that has their welfare at heart.

Btw, that big, very hard to handle adult is now easily handled with supervision by our 6 year old child. She's over 3,000 grams now and laid back as they come but even with that being said, we never forget for a minute she's a snake, with all the instincts of one and tailor our interactions with her based on that. To do anything else is a disservice to the snake and a bit silly on our part.