Pied-$$??

Vaughn,

Good point! For the small breeders it has to be about making contacts, treating people well and representing them and their snakes honestly.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

I am talking about the general people buying snakes, of course if you know someone personally or have had many contacts with them it would give the smaller breeder a chance.

If someone looked me up and saw no real feedback from me, didnt know me, and called me up, and decided they liked me.... there is little chance they would stil pay the exact same as they would to nerd... more likely they would try to haggle me down knowing that I would have a lot of trouble selling at the same price as them.

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I dont buy it. If someone wants a snake that you have produced, they can either pay your price or move on. Nobody should want to be known as a bargain basement shop for cheap snakes. I'll use Joe Compel as an example again (sorry Joe! :) ). Joe is a good guy, always willing to answer questions and has built an excellent reputation by being honest, having awesome animals and treating people well. I don't think he would classify himself as one of the big guys. I haven't seen him cut prices on his animals. He knows what they are worth and seems willing to wait it out and not dump animals at a low price just because he can.

another good bit of advice i've gotten from a good breeder friend is to always think ahead and have a plan/vision/goal not just for that year, but years ahead... lets say for example a breeder cuts their price way low like 30-40% of current market on a animal. the sell out, pocket some dough. what happens next year and the next? how low are you going to cut then? how much profit from the same morph then? how long will your investment make you want you want it to? the less money you bring in the less you have to work with to save,invest, buy more morphs and keep up with changing trends! just some food for thought:2cent:



vaughn

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

it will be very hard for new breeders to sell their snakes at the same price.

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I'm telling you that it's not! ... I was there ... 3 years ago NO ONE knew who 8 Ball Pythons was and I sold out of everything I produced at market price. The big guys had everything I had for sale, in larger numbers, at the same exact price. I am the living breathing proof that it can be done.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

Basically those larger breeders would have to sell out of their snakes before smaller breeders had a chance at the same price.

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Why do you think that? It just isn't true. Newer/smaller scale breeders can advertise more, respond to emails quicker, return phone calls faster, and generally give more time to potential customers than many of the big guys. There are a lot of people out there that like the personalized attention that newer/smaller scale breeders can give if they are hungry enough to be successful. You can compete with the big breeders price wise if you're willing to bust your hump and put in the work ... I've done it!

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

That being said, you list your snakes at a given price, but do you ever sell for less than you list? To work with someone, to help someone out, etc? I don't think you would lower your price just to make a quick buck, but Im sure you would lower it under other circumstances? (someone buys multiples, etc)

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Of course I do. I am very good to return customers and I give discounts on large packages ... I've even given morphs away for free practically to friends that are just getting started in the hobby. But there is a big difference between discount merchandise to reward a good customer and advertising animals well below market value because you don't have the business sense or work ethic to compete with other breeders. Anyone can put a low price tag on a product and make a little money ... a professional business person sells their product at market value by using their skill and work ethic to make ALL of the money.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

I just think it is wrong to use a blanket statement saying that everyone who sells under market price, is trying to make a quick buck, is lazy, etc (if I misread this please let me know).

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Again, not what I said. There is a big difference between discounting a market price and selling at below market prices. One is a standard business practice, the other is a quick way to shorten the lifespan of this industry.

-adam

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

not losing packages

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I've had more packages lost or delayed with Delta in the 10 years I've been shipping snakes than all other carries combined.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

at least offering some kind of insurance

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What good is insurance that never pays out. In the 10 years I've been selling and shipping snakes in this industry, I've only heard of one person getting a delta claim reimbursed. And that was because their box was crushed and had tire tracks on it.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

and other stories that would make me more likely to ship through delta than through my local fed-ex guy who likes to play basketball with my packages :)

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And you think that Delta employees care more about packages than FedEx employees? .... I jerk is a jerk is a jerk ... they work at FedEx and spin your boxes, Delta and throw your animals in the wrong cargo hold, and Burger King and spit on your food. That's life.

Ship a couple hundred snakes and get back to me ... I promise you you'll see things completely different. ;)

-adam

Wait a second, Burger King is spitting on my food? How do you have this inside knowledge?

Ok I'm satisfied with all of the answers given so far... I really do NOT know enough about this to be making a good argument. If small breeders can get the same amount as large breeders, then I agree, I see no reason why they shouldnt sell at the same price, and that undercutting would be the wrong way to go.

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Again, not what I said. There is a big difference between discounting a market price and selling at below market prices. One is a standard business practice, the other is a quick way to shorten the lifespan of this industry.

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Point taken, thanks for re-wording it for me, I get it now.

Cool! Good discussion

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I've had more packages lost or delayed with Delta in the 10 years I've been shipping snakes than all other carries combined.



What good is insurance that never pays out. In the 10 years I've been selling and shipping snakes in this industry, I've only heard of one person getting a delta claim reimbursed. And that was because their box was crushed and had tire tracks on it.



And you think that Delta employees care more about packages than FedEx employees? .... I jerk is a jerk is a jerk ... they work at FedEx and spin your boxes, Delta and throw your animals in the wrong cargo hold, and Burger King and spit on your food. That's life.

Ship a couple hundred snakes and get back to me ... I promise you you'll see things completely different. ;)

-adam

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Thanks! It always helps to get multiple perspectives. I agree, I am not one to speak on this matter as anything I've heard I've gotten second hand. I've never shipped a snake Delta.... Ive received snakes Delta, UPS, and Fedex, and theyve all been fine.

I have however shipped a LOT of Computers and hardware via USPS, UPS, and Fed Ex, and USPS and Fed-Ex consistantly damaged stuff, grrr.... I think fragile sticker means "PUNT ME!"

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Originally Posted by ssscales

I do think the system is flawed in thinking everyone must and should price themselves equal.

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Well, actually I don't think that's what I said.

What I said, was there is no reason for a new breeder with no rep to price their animals any differently than the big breeders. Market value is market value no matter who you are. A snake isn't worth less because you're not known, sellers just put less value on them because they lack the confidence or ability to sell them.

If a big breeder is getting 5K for a snake, there's no reason why you can't either ... you just have to put in the work.

I've never said that anyone should price high or that they MUST do anything. Who I am to even suggest that … I can’t get my paid employees to listen to me let alone the entire ball python industry ... I just try and point out that the people that automatically lower their price on a morph just because it's a new breeding season instead of raising prices on their older animals, or the people that list their animals for sale 20% less than "big breeders" because they are afraid to compete with them directly are, in my opinion, hurting the market for everyone.

All prices are going to come down eventually, but if there is a market at the prices big breeders are setting and smaller guys/gals are setting lower prices for no other reason than they can't figure out any other way to move their animals, the smaller guys/gals are putting an unnatural downward pressure on the morph price. The big breeders are telling everyone that this is price support at 2.5K or 5K or whatever because that's what their customers are paying!! ... For the smaller guys/gals to put that downward pressure on prices before those buyers dry up shortens the overall lifespan of the market. I've seen some guys knock YEARS off of a certain morph because they "needed to sell" ... "have tax bills" ... "need to make room" ... it's INSANE!!! ... Screw me and my customers because you have no idea how to manage your money and run a business? .... Thanks pal!

Can it be fixed? Absolutely not ... losers are losers and you can't avoid them ... Can I complain about it ... You bet your @$$ I can! :soapbx:

:sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

If small breeders can get the same amount as large breeders, then I agree, I see no reason why they shouldnt sell at the same price, and that undercutting would be the wrong way to go.

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If all the small breeder is going to do is throw a picture up on a classified ad and wait for the money to pour in then of course they're not going to be able to compete with an established breeder.

You have to put in the work! ... Market, advertise, sell! ... Read books on ad design, sales campaigns ... audit a marketing class at a local college ... become a student of business ... become a professional. Anyone can produce snakes ... anyone can make a couple of bucks ... it takes dedication and hard work to create a profitable business that can last for the long haul.

One last small example ... Every Friday is Chinese food day at 8 Ball Pythons ... we head down to the local strip mall and load up ... I usually get a Mandarin Chicken platter for $5.50 ... the place has been there forever and the food is excellent! ... The other day, we noticed that a new place opened up ... first day ... so we decided to check them out ... being a creature of habit I ordered ... you guessed it ... Mandarin Chicken ... guess what? ... It was $5.50!! ... If the Chinese food biz was like the ball python biz, I could have gotten that lunch platter for $2 because the new place wasn't "known" .... maybe I should have pleaded my case to the owner .... LOL

-adam