Why the heck do people keep breeding spider morphs?

This is probably due to my religious background but the belief that humans have a soul and animals do not would make comparing the ethics of the two completely apples to oranges. I however also fully accept that there are intelligent, good hearted people who have beliefs different than mine so to each his/her own.

Willowy I agree with what you said. I think the issue is how much is this condition affecting the animals that we are missing.

Enginee, I whole heartily disagree. I do appreciate your acceptance. Talks of science and the soul historically do not go well.

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If I have to justify its quality of life than I have no interest. This is especially true in animals that it is hard to judge how well they are. Just because an animal attains the basics for life such as breeding, eating, and of course not dying, is it truly living a good life?

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In captivity

Spider: Eat, poop, shed, breed

Other mutations: Eat, poop, shed, breed

Should make you wonder if the mutations you keep really have a quality of life in captivity as well. :confusd:


We are talking about snake here not dogs, not human SNAKES

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Originally Posted by Deborah

In captivity

Spider: Eat, poop, shed, breed

Other mutations: Eat, poop, shed, breed

Should make you wonder if the mutations you keep really have a quality of life in captivity as well. :confusd:


We are talking about snake here not dogs, not human SNAKES

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I should worry about my snakes having possible unknown issues? Seems like an exercise in futility. I thought we were discussing a known issue in the spider morph.

I think the point is that we do not know that it is an issue. The fact that the majority of spiders thrive would make this clear. We are not trying to justify the morph, we are pointing out that (other than the small percentage that do not thrive and must be culled) the mutation and neurological disorder is only an issue for some of the people that see it.

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

I should worry about my snakes having possible unknown issues? Seems like an exercise in futility. I thought we were discussing a known issue in the spider morph.

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What issue they move around fine, eat fine, shed fine, poop fine, breed fine how is their quality of life any different than another mutation???

We already established that any animal not having a proper quality of life regardless of the paint job should be euthanized.

Ten years ago I was told by more than a few "old time" breeders of reptiles that ANY morph was "unnatural" and should be culled because they were all unhealthy mutants. I'm certain there's still people who think it's true. I remember being told all albinos were blind and should be culled for humane reasons.

Seems bizarre now, doesn't it?

The vast majority of spider morphs do quite well. They hatch out the way they are and never know any different. They do not exhibit any distress compared to any normal. They are just clumsy. They have a little palsy.

I have both a spider female and now a new spider banana. The spider is very wobbly. She shows the wobble all the time. She eats pre-killed rodents with gusto and is just fine. The new snake doesn't show the wobble unless he is agitated, and then it's a slight clumsiness/palsy, not severe at all. I'm sure he will do fine too.

If you don't like spiders, don't own a spider. It's as simple as that. To try to tell everyone that spiders are in pain, or in distress, or defective and should be culled is rude at best, and just plain egotistical. Spiders have been around a long time and have been eating and pooping and breeding with all the other morphs.

So both of your contention is that the wobble is not a disorder? All I am saying is that there is a known issue that could possibly effect their well being. I will err on safe side and stay away from the spider morph.

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

So both of your contention is that the wobble is not a disorder? All I am saying is that there is a known issue that could possibly effect their well being. I will err on safe side and stay away from the spider morph.

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No one that affect the quality of life, Spider do as well if sometimes not better than other mutations, I have always found them more inquisitive.

As a breeder you have to make your own choices and draw your own lines, mine are at the possibility of severe deformation which is why I don't work with Super Black Pastel but work with other Black Pastel Combos.

Ultimately even when working with other animals things happen, kink, underbite etc and that when the breeder has to know what he has to do regardless of the paint job, I have euthanized animals in the past that wouldn't have survived or have a quality of life and known were Spiders.

Remember every mutation is a defect and there are purist out there (old school ones)

If you want a list of morphs to avoid because of potential genetic problems, the website linked earlier has a list. It helped me generate my own list of snakes to avoid working with:

Spider, Champagne, Sable, Hidden Gene Woma, Desert, Caramel, Spotnose

A few of them, like Spider, HGW, and Caramel Albino I had already known about, the rest were news to me. Mind that I don't really see the bug/small eyes or the duck bill as big enough problems to avoid those lines (Black Pastels and Lessers are some of my favorite lines), but the lethal genes and wobble are on my avoid list.

There does seem to be a problem in this topic, since the beginning, of one group and another group being unable to form and maintain their love/dislike of the spider gene without feeling personally attacked by the other group. Part of this is likely due to the fervor in which each group holds their views, and part of it is likely due to internet misunderstandings.