BHB gives info on some scaleless concerns

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Originally Posted by anatess

Do you have access to any of the college libraries? It would be great if you can peruse the entire article. The paper goes more in depth on the studied functions of micropits. And, the micropits don't just receive signals from the pit holes either as they are found all over the head and body of the boid.

Finding the head in the dark tells us a lot about the infrared image the snake is receiving as striking in the general direction of the rat may not tell you what the snake "sees" but more what the snake hears/feels. So, if it can still target the head of the rat with that thin beta-keratin layer over the pit membrane, then it's an indicator that the absence of the visually-normal pit holes is not in any way providing a handicap.

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I almost feel a little bad when i have to crush an argument so cruelly. But then, its how we learn... happens to me as well. :D

one fact blows your argument out of the water. while it is true that in living rhodents the head is much warmer than the rest of the body, and gives off more heat, that is not true for frozen thawed rats. and BPs manage to find the head on a frozen thawed. and a frozen thawed is by the very fact of getting killed, then frozen, then thawed, totally uniform in temperature. so it cannot be true.

then, your other comment.... yeah, they function through heat. heat moves at a certain velocity through solid materials. so a large object will reach thermal equilibrium slower than a small one. like, in a proper heat pit, some areas can be warmer than others because the long distances cause heatr transfer to be slow. now listen: on the nanoscale that all goes to hell because the pits the article describes will reach thermal equilibrium around 3000 times faster. getting a differentiated signal would require the receptors and neurons and the BPs brain to be 3000 times faster. (and i already mentioned that the geometry of these small things just is not right).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQR1r1KTjaE :D


*WARNING* breakig bad spoiler in following link *WARNING*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDQOvzFetxs :)

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

I almost feel a little bad when i have to crush an argument so cruelly. But then, its how we learn... happens to me as well. :D

one fact blows your argument out of the water. while it is true that in living rhodents the head is much warmer than the rest of the body, and gives off more heat, that is not true for frozen thawed rats. and BPs manage to find the head on a frozen thawed. and a frozen thawed is by the very fact of getting killed, then frozen, then thawed, totally uniform in temperature. so it cannot be true.

then, your other comment.... yeah, they function through heat. heat moves at a certain velocity through solid materials. so a large object will reach thermal equilibrium slower than a small one. like, in a proper heat pit, some areas can be warmer than others because the long distances cause heatr transfer to be slow. now listen: on the nanoscale that all goes to hell because the pits the article describes will reach thermal equilibrium around 3000 times faster. getting a differentiated signal would require the receptors and neurons and the BPs brain to be 3000 times faster. (and i already mentioned that the geometry of these small things just is not right).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQR1r1KTjaE :D


*WARNING* breakig bad spoiler in following link *WARNING*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDQOvzFetxs :)

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I don't know how you do it but I always heat the head of the F/T before offering? :confusd:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

I almost feel a little bad when i have to crush an argument so cruelly. But then, its how we learn... happens to me as well. :D

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We're arguing? Next time you think we're arguing, let me know so I can butt out of the convo.

I'm not arguing. I'm DISCUSSING. There's a BIG DIFFERENCE. Arguing is when 2 people are trying to convince the other. Discussing is when you want to learn something so you share what you know and figure out what the other guy knows so you can both add to what you know.

So, if you are arguing instead of discussing, say it on your next post so I can get out of this conversation because I'm not a structural biologist and would not be considered an expert in anything ball python. And from I understand, neither are you.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

one fact blows your argument out of the water. while it is true that in living rhodents the head is much warmer than the rest of the body, and gives off more heat,

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No, this is not correct. The head does not give more heat than the body. For example, in humans, the head is as hot as the armpits and the butt... the 3 main sources of temperature readings for fever.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

that is not true for frozen thawed rats. and BPs manage to find the head on a frozen thawed. and a frozen thawed is by the very fact of getting killed, then frozen, then thawed, totally uniform in temperature. so it cannot be true.

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The snake processes the heat of the rat to form an IMAGE. Didn't you read what you linked? It is mentioned in that self-same article (or the article that that article is derived from). Therefore, it is not just what is hot or hotter part of the rat. It is the heat of the rat compared to its surroundings so it takes SHAPE in the snake's brain so it can tell which part is the head. This is the same with F/T.

Most people shoot the head of the F/T rat with a hair dryer to help the snake have a clearer picture of the head to aid them strike the head because an F/T may not have uniform heat all throughout its body which blurs the rat image.

Why this is an important experiment is because I want to know how the structure of the thin beta-keratin layer in a scaleless ball python affects the IMAGE of the rat. We already know it can find heat because both scaleless speciments in Brian's shop already ate. Now, what I want to know is if the snake sees a Blob of something or it sees a RAT without the aid of a visual image through the eyes. So the snake targetting the head in the dark is a clear indicator that it saw a RAT instead of a Blob.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

then, your other comment.... yeah, they function through heat. heat moves at a certain velocity through solid materials. so a large object will reach thermal equilibrium slower than a small one. like, in a proper heat pit, some areas can be warmer than others because the long distances cause heatr transfer to be slow. now listen: on the nanoscale that all goes to hell because the pits the article describes will reach thermal equilibrium around 3000 times faster. getting a differentiated signal would require the receptors and neurons and the BPs brain to be 3000 times faster. (and i already mentioned that the geometry of these small things just is not right).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQR1r1KTjaE :D


*WARNING* breakig bad spoiler in following link *WARNING*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDQOvzFetxs :)

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I still don't understand how this performs with a thin beta-keratin layer. Hence, the need to experiment.

Remember... if you're arguing let me know because I'm going to find info somewhere else.

I don't heat the head of the rodents any more than I heat the rest of the body, and the snakes I feed them to (including colubrids, which don't even have heat pits) all manage to find the head just fine...

Just a note on that particular part. Carry on :)

-Jen

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Originally Posted by LLLReptile

I don't heat the head of the rodents any more than I heat the rest of the body, and the snakes I feed them to (including colubrids, which don't even have heat pits) all manage to find the head just fine...

Just a note on that particular part. Carry on :)

-Jen

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I do the same but when I watch them swallow a lot of the time they start backwards, get far enough to realize a leg or something snags them up and they can't go further, then they spit it up and start somewhere else. I have noticed more of a trial and error pattern.

Also, this:

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/:cens0r...21_2851629.gif

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

All this scaleless talk is so 2009. I've developed an invisible ball python. Please see the picture attached to this post of my big male after it swallowed a live rat......and yes, it's a visual het.

After that, I'm going to work on breeding one without any teeth or a tongue. I've leaked this info to a number of people in the hobby and I've received quite a bit of hate mail about it. The nerve of some people, after all , it's not like they live in the wild.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...norway_rat.jpg

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Lol

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