Price of Gas Affecting You, Too?

Raptor... Just.. Yes new infrastructure will cost money. At this point I can only hope that some rich guy will pop out from the woodwork and invest in more public options, since the government and taxpayers don't seem to care enough...

My point is, people SHOULD have an option. Instead, cars, gas, and car insurance are shoved down our throats just so we can make it to our job on time. This shouldn't be the case.

Its wishful thinking, but I'd rather be thinking than just mindlessly driving for the rest of my life.

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Less consumption is obviously the answer. Making it happen, however, is problematic, and seems to be a trickle down situation at best.

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unfortunately so.

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Speaking as someone who biked to work (13 miles each way) whenever the weather wasn't miserable for 5+ years, yeah, biking is great. That said, it's far from being practical for all people all the time (some people can't arrive at work sweaty, etc), and walking is far less so, based on speed alone. In the metro area where I live, you can basically get anywhere on a bus...if you've got all day to get there and you don't mind paying about the same for your bus fare as you would have for gas in a car for the same distance. Public transit sucks.

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That is awesome that you biked. I totally could bike to work from where I live, but the roads that I would have to take are rather busy. I'm moving about 3 miles from work shortly, and I plan to bike weather permitting. Sure it isn't for everyone, but if you can than why not? You should at least have the option!! Surely there are folks out there that aren't fans of driving everyday, but they do it anyway because thats the only choice they have.

There are definitely some mediocre public transit systems out there. In my home town of Ann Arbor, MI, we were fortunate to have a great bus system with stops almost every 1/4 mile all throughout the city. All buses eventually ended up downtown which was pretty convenient. Some places are doing a decent job, why not every city? Big or small?

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As far as biking on 4 lane roads goes, you don't see it because bikers prefer to avoid those roads whenever possible; the higher the traffic level, the lower your safety. Sometimes it seems like cars are TRYING to hit you, and the more traffic you encounter, the higher your likelihood of encountering an :cens0r: who doesn't understand that you have the right to be there too.

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That makes sense, but I think the street would be a much more pleasant place if people actually liked being there. Right now, driving consists of traffic, road rage, more traffic, and seas of parking. What if you could drive through beautiful parks, a bike lane, some water, some shopping. Its an unrealistic ideal, but it would be SO much nicer than what most suburban sprawl looks like today. There is no money for it at this point, the damage is done.

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The price of gas has definitely driven more people to ride bikes than in the past. I know this both because over the 5+ years I was a bike commuter, I saw more and more other people doing the same, and because I saw the price of a road bike with any kind of decent components on it roughly double (I paid $800 or so for a bike with a Tiagra front derailleur and a 105 rear toward the beginning of my time as a bike commuter, and a few years ago, it was more like $1500+ for something similar). Supply wasn't dwindling, so that had to be based on demand risin

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I live in Chicago and I have seen it myself. TONS more people are biking than there were 5 years ago. I see protected bike lanes being put up and I get excited!! Finally!!! Bikes have a serious place in the infrastructure. Its not just about the car anymore :) :) I love my bike and I can't wait for its more practical for me to take it to work with me everyday. I just had the whole thing upgraded this summer and its splendid. I have pictures.

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Alternative energy sources are a great plan, but the infrastructure (electric car charging stations, etc) isn't there, and as a country, we can't afford to pay for it; we're already too far into a debt spiral. Yes, I know you're going to say we can't afford not to, but seriously, where's the money going to come from? More taxes? More debt? Both are unpalatable.

Once you've got the infrastructure, how do you get a significant enough portion of the public to buy new electric cars? The only one I find the least bit appealing is the Tesla roadster, and I can't afford that. Sure, I pay for gas now, but I also have no car payment and my insurance is pretty cheap. It would cost money I simply don't have. Get me something as good as or better than my current car ('02 Audi A4 1.8T quattro) in terms of speed, comfort, driving enjoyment, winter capabilities, etc, that's a pure electric or a hybrid getting 75+ MPG, and let me buy it for say $11000 like I paid for my Audi used, and we're in business. Yeah, not happening, I know.

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I know you are right. I can only hope that some smart people with money will figure these things out and invest in the necessary technology and infrastructure. Money is already coming from thin air.. it has been for over 30 years since the dollar has been backed by gold or silver.

I dunno, Maybe less money invested in BLOWING STUFF UP. Ugh.

Electric cars will catch on eventually (I hope), once they get better. hybrid cars took quite a few years to become more common. I'd highly consider buying an electric car if was a serious competitor in terms of price. I know a lot about cars is going fast and having a big engine or whatever.. but I really just want to be able to drive places I can't walk/bike. I'm realistically not going to go faster than 80 miles an hour.. so I don't need a car than can go 150.

blah blah blah. TL;DR It's a big wish for things to change in a way that will benefit everyone. The money to back it just isn't there.

Steffe,

Check out the book Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream by Duany, Plater-Zyberk and Speck. I think you'd really enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by swansonbb

Steffe,

Check out the book Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream by Duany, Plater-Zyberk and Speck. I think you'd really enjoy it.

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have it on my shelf ;) I've got all the goodies.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

have it on my shelf ;) I've got all the goodies.

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It sounds like it. One of my favorites.

Guys, c'mon here, were aren't focusing on the real issue here: getting Phx city-wide air conditioned sidewalks. Let's stop all this arguing and work toward that common and beautiful goal.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Guys, c'mon here, were aren't focusing on the real issue here: getting Phx city-wide air conditioned sidewalks. Let's stop all this arguing and work toward that common and beautiful goal.

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Start a kickstarter, lol!

In the city I live in, and the neighboring city, LOTS of people walk or bike for their groceries. People who work in town also walk or bike to/from work. I would LOVE to be able to walk or bike to pick up my groceries, but really not practical or safe when you have a toddler...

That being said, there's only a limited number of jobs in town, and very limited pay. I work 30 miles away from my home, and right now can't afford to buy or rent a place closer to my work. So I'm stuck commuting. Commuting actually does save me money compared to the house payment or rent I would be paying instead. I would like to move some day, because frankly I'm tired of commuting, but right now that isn't in the cards. My job involves lots of driving just for the work part of it (not just to get to work), and since we don't have company cars, I'm required to use my own personal vehicle. I have to go off roads a lot as part of my job too, so that makes a sedan impractical as well (unless I wanted to walk 3 miles in the sun during 100+ degree summer heat just to get to my monitoring site...). I'm seeing more SUV-type hybrids now, but I have concerns about them in terms of using one for work. I don't know enough about them, and I think they are too new yet to really be proven. I have to cross water sometimes... I have concerns about doing that using a hybrid or electrical car... I also have horses, and that requires a big heavy duty truck to pull the trailer. That is why we have three vehicles. The little commuter sedan for those days I'm in the office (and likely my husband will be using it when he finds a job... but right now he's off work), my 4Runner for towing the baby around town (because I feel safer putting the baby in a SUV-type vehicle versus a sedan) and for my field days, and then the big truck for hauling the horse trailer.

As nice as those A/C side walks or underground tunnels sound, it ain't going to happen, at least not here. This state is already in a HUGE deficit, and as has already been asked, who's going to pay for it? There are too many poor who don't/can't pay taxes, and that number is increasing. The rich get too many tax breaks and get out of paying. That leaves the middle class who are quickly being sucked dry by the increased taxes, increased cost of living, increased gas prices, etc. This state, this country, is in a world of hurt, and until we get out of that, I don't think it is practical or feasible to pursue alternatives to fossil fuels. It is needed, long overdue, but it really isn't practical or feasible right now.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

But but but... Can Phx still have them, pleeeeease?! Can't the other places all pitch in to pay for them in Phx?! We'll REEEEEEALLY appreciate it and and uh... We'll be good all year n stuff!

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bicycles are how most people in the WORLD get to work. Bikes are far more prevalent in Asia and Europe then they are in the US. When I was younger and my kids were small, I used to take them to daycare in a burley pulled behind my bike on my way to work (I only lived 5 miles from work and their daycare was on the way so it was easy) I kind of got away from it when the kids got bigger and we moved further out, but I've been getting into biking again over the last couple of years and gas prices have had a lot to do with it. I was doing some calculations and discovered that you could get a halfways decent cheap bike off of craigslist for about 60-70 bucks and it would actually pay for itself just in the gas saved over the course of a summer. I also used to think that, around here in the frozen north, it was mainly a spring to fall type of transportation but I've really been surprised with the number of people I see out biking in below zero weather this winter. I think I'm going to have to give that a try, I just have to work up to it.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

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