a few observations

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Originally Posted by Zombie

I didn't say that you said they should come out during the day, I actually agreed with you that they are nocturnal. However, a PROPERLY fed BP should not need to "hunt" daily and roam all night. If its in its hide at night, it's content. It's not like it thinks "hmm, think ill go for a midnight stroll". They are instinctual animals. They do what they need to survive. Once again, you are placing your human emotions on them. They don't think like you.

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Just wanted to highlight this specifically because it is a very valid point. With these animals, if you want to delve into their psychology as a part of their husbandry, you need to learn how to separate your emotions and wishes from what a BP just sees as daily survival, meaning they do much of anything that transcends beyond their needs (food, shelter, warmth, water). Once again, these snakes (most snakes, I would even venture) survive almost purely on instinct and do not engage in much recreational activity, so to speak, like most other animals. They do not play, exercise, seek extra stimulus from their environment, or as Zombie put it say "hmm, think ill go for a midnight stroll".
These are animals of habit and when they aren't surviving, they are resting in a very sheltered area, it is almost as simple as that. In that resting state is when we could presume that they are at their most content so I think the best enclosure/captive habitat would be one that facilitates that mental state whether it be a rack or a terrarium.

This has gone on long enough.

Ball pythons - especially males - have been observed regularly climbing trees and eating birds in the wild. In fact, avian prey make up a large part of their diet.

I've shared the study with enough people on here that anyone can probably get a copy.

What has not been observed in the wild is ball pythons living in Tupperware and being moved to special feeding bins so that they don't ingest dirt, rocks and sticks along with their freshly thawed out domestic mice and rats.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

This has gone on long enough.

Ball pythons - especially males - have been observed regularly climbing trees and eating birds in the wild. In fact, avian prey make up a large part of their diet.

I've shared the study with enough people on here that anyone can probably get a copy.

What has not been observed in the wild is ball pythons living in Tupperware and being moved to special feeding bins so that they don't ingest dirt, rocks and sticks along with their freshly thawed out domestic mice and rats.

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I haven't said that they won't go into a tree for food. As said before, they will most certainly go into a tree for what they need (ie, heat, food, etc).

I respect your opinion and knowledge skip. But they aren't in wooden enclosures or aquariums in the wild either. Anything we try in captivity is too SIMULATE what they need in the wild without the risks. We are trying to give them everything they need while removing all risks of the wild (at least trying to). In my care, they don't get attacked or eaten by predators, there humidity and temps are spot on for what they need, and they don't get parasites (if they did get any, I would fix the problem and they won't die from them as they could in the wild).

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Originally Posted by Zombie

I haven't said that they won't go into a tree for food. As said before, they will most certainly go into a tree for what they need (ie, heat, food, etc).

I respect your opinion and knowledge skip. But they aren't in wooden enclosures or aquariums in the wild either. Anything we try in captivity is too SIMULATE what they need in the wild without the risks. We are trying to give them everything they need while removing all risks of the wild (at least trying to). In my care, they don't get attacked or eaten by predators, there humidity and temps are spot on for what they need, and they don't get parasites (if they did get any, I would fix the problem and they won't die from them as they could in the wild).

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captive keeping is captive keeping. it's impossible and misguided to replicate the natural ecosystem of a bp. but, it is responsible to advocate best practices, regardless of one's opinion regarding rack system vs. naturalistic terrarium. however, anything beyond that is just asking to be put in one's place for confusing their opinion with facts. royals are far more arboreally inclined than most people realize. they hunt in trees in the wild, males especially as Skip mentioned, but they're also heavy-bodied and not renown for their svelte balancing acts. but who cares? this kind of thread is anathema to helpful input from members because it becomes fodder both for the OP and for everyone else to soapbox their viewpoint that has been forged in the online forums not terribly long ago. yes, the intentions are good, but the end product is not.

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Originally Posted by wwmjkd

captive keeping is captive keeping. it's impossible and misguided to replicate the natural ecosystem of a bp. but, it is responsible to advocate best practices, regardless of one's opinion regarding rack system vs. naturalistic terrarium. however, anything beyond that is just asking to be put in one's place for confusing their opinion with facts. royals are far more arboreally inclined than most people realize. they hunt in trees in the wild, males especially as Skip mentioned, but they're also heavy-bodied and not renown for their svelte balancing acts. but who cares? this kind of thread is anathema to helpful input from members because it becomes fodder both for the OP and for everyone else to soapbox their viewpoint that has been forged in the online forums not terribly long ago. yes, the intentions are good, but the end product is not.

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Right, I fully agree with you. I wasn't trying to advocate tubs/racks over terrariums. I was simply saying they are easier to maintain their needs in. Which is why they are usually recommended to the newbies that come here for advice. It would be fairly difficult to recreate the exact ecosystem and maintain it. But we are still attempting to simulate they temps/humidity and what not to keep them content. That's all I was trying to get across.

And that we shouldn't capture wild prey for them to eat for risks of parasites and what not. I won't even purchase feeders at petco for this reason...

I don't have an issue with people keeping them in naturalistic terrariums. As long as they are doing there part to make sure their husbandry is right. Which in a lot of cases is harder to do in a terrarium/aquarium.

hell i just skinned my ball pythons and made a tight belt so bye yall. good talk.

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hell i just skinned my ball pythons and made a tight belt so bye yall. good talk.

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hell i just skinned my ball pythons and made a tight belt so bye yall. good talk.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

hell i just skinned my ball pythons and made a tight belt so bye yall. good talk.

- - - Updated - - -

hell i just skinned my ball pythons and made a tight belt so bye yall. good talk.

- - - Updated - - -

hell i just skinned my ball pythons and made a tight belt so bye yall. good talk.

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Umm..what?

Lmao at this whole thread. Good stuff haha

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Originally Posted by mr~python

hell i just skinned my ball pythons and made a tight belt so bye yall. good talk.

- - - Updated - - -

hell i just skinned my ball pythons and made a tight belt so bye yall. good talk.

- - - Updated - - -

hell i just skinned my ball pythons and made a tight belt so bye yall. good talk.

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Did you make a drink from the gall bladder? It's the elixir of immortality. Don't forget to garnish with hummingbird beak. Wouldn't want to let that go to waste.

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