this is beautiful i wantted to share

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Originally Posted by interloc

At its simplest form its like this. On one hand if you believe, you will spend eternity in the best place you can think of with the best people and things you can think of, or I turn to worm food. It's a no brainer for me anyways.


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That might be how you see it, but I look forward to the day I am reunited with the earth. I find no value in everlasting life. I want to make the most of my time alive and that means not spending it worshiping something/someone.

I'm super stoked for someone to make a triple recessive! It would be magic. I'm only about 12 years away so catch me if you can friends! Lol.


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Originally Posted by Kaorte

It is very hard for someone to offend an Atheist ;) But extremely easy to offend those who subscribe to religion.

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I believe Dilbert best describes this phenomenon in the 6th frame of this comic.

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000...rip.sunday.gif


EDIT: Oh, and HI SKIPLODER!

DOUBLE EDIT: All he was saying was that atheists do not actively believe in the absence of gods, they simply don't 'subscribe' to it themselves. You know, because as people of science we believe anything is possible until it is disproven, which unfortunately the existence of 'god' has not been and will likely never be due to its definition.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

It was this part right? Let me break it down, just so I know I'm not crazy.

Christians believe there is a higher power.

Atheists believe there is not a higher power.

Just to be clear, I am a super atheist. I'm not disagreeing with you. Just trying to understand why the difference between those two comments is bothering you so much? I don't even think that is what I said...

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Ok An Atheist does not believe there is not a higher power. An atheist does not believe there is a higher power. They are different things. Not believing something does not mean you believe the opposite. If I flip a coin and ask you do you believe the coin is heads up and you say no that does not mean you believe the coin is tails up. So if you say "Do you believe in God?" I say no. If you then say "So you believe there is no God?" I would say no. I don't wouldn't believe either until you present evidence. So to put it another way not believing something does not mean you believe the opposite.

Okay I understand what you are getting at, but the way that you have worded it has completely confused me.

An Atheist does not believe there is not a higher power.

An Atheist does not believe there is a higher power.

The first is a double negative, which translates to: An Atheist does believe there is a higher power. Which is completely contradictory.


So should I instead say:

Christians believe a higher power exists.

Atheists believe no higher power exists.

Also, you can't say something like this:

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I don't wouldn't believe either until you present evidence.

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And expect me to understand what you mean.


I am really trying to understand your point, but I'm just not getting it. I didn't mean to misrepresent atheism, as I am one myself. It seems like we are just getting down to semantics now.

I was breaking it down into two parts, Those who believe in the existence of god and those who do not, for the sake of simplicity. Why are these not opposites?

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Ok An Atheist does not believe there is not a higher power. An atheist does not believe there is a higher power. They are different things. Not believing something does not mean you believe the opposite. If I flip a coin and ask you do you believe the coin is heads up and you say no that does not mean you believe the coin is tails up. So if you say "Do you believe in God?" I say no. If you then say "So you believe there is no God?" I would say no. I don't wouldn't believe either until you present evidence. So to put it another way not believing something does not mean you believe the opposite.

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an atheist by definition believes no higher power exists. period. i believe what you are attempting to describe is agnosticism.

an agnostic person doesn't believe there is a god, yet doesn't believe there isn't one either.

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

I have always used the word "Ignorant" to mean "not having knowledge of" as opposed to being an insult. I am ignorant when it comes to speaking Spanish. I am ignorant with regard to "String Theory" and "Quantum Physics". While I am ignorant with regard to these things, that doesn't mean I am incapable of learning them. If I want to insult someone or I think they are incapable of learning, then that is different than "Ignorant". For that I reserve the word "Stupid". Just my $0.02

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Yes, I see where you are coming from. I misspoke when I said it could never not be offensive. However, even if you use this definition of ignorant, in this context it suggests that people who are Christians choose not to, or are incapable of, learning whatever the "right" thing is. This is totally fine if you are a person who believes Christians are misled or misinformed, but you have to see how they can take that as a personal offense--and religion is always a raw nerve. Something completely innocuous almost always becomes offensive when it comes to religion, which is why I tend to steer clear. It's damn near impossible not to offend.

Atheism is a position on belief and agnosticism is a position on knowledge. They are different things. A person can be an agnostic atheist.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

So should I instead say:

Christians believe a higher power exists.

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Not to be knit picky but there is a bit more to this.

Christians do not believe in "a" higher power. They believe in "their" higher power. This is the difference between saying leprechauns exist and "my" highly personalized leprechaun exists and all other leprechauns do not exist.