New smoking restrictions in Washington. Oh boy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

OOPs hit the wrong button. Two things
1. If the issue is the health of the people then eliminate smoking all together just as we eliminate the bad toasters...
2. Yes you have the right to live where ever you wish, how ever that does not include the right to alter the behavior of those around you because you live there. An extreme example...building a house next to a pig farm and then expecting the farmer to eliminate the smell.

---

What about a farmer moving next to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

The only problem with that is "eliminating" things doesnt eliminate them. It just makes them illegal. Which creates black markets.

The best thing that 'could' be logical would make it illegal to smoke in public if people think its that much of a hazard to their health. And smokers would have to smoke in their homes, or other places like how there are cigar clubs.

There is no way your going to get every person in the country to stop smoking, even if it was illegal.

---

I know I seem like I'm taking both sides with this comment...but if we do that (See the bold) then how long before we see that the second hand smoke is hazardous to the children living in the home...I can tell you that living with two parents who smoked when I started it was NO PROBLEM FOR ME. No coughing, or gagging. I just started. This is why I tell you the string has no end. Either we the people eliminate it or decide to live with it with some sort of sanity to the rules. But we decide not the Government.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

What about a farmer moving next to you.

---

Then the same should apply to him.:D As long as it is not in an environment where you would normally expect to risk finding one next door.:D
After all what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.
A smoker moving into a previously smoke free environment and polluting it should be regulated by the apartment complex....not the government and the tenant inconvenienced should be well with-in their rights to request he relocate or the apartments accommodate the nonsmoker by moving them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

I know I seem like I'm taking both sides with this comment...but if we do that (See the bold) then how long before we see that the second hand smoke is hazardous to the children living in the home...I can tell you that living with two parents who smoked when I started it was NO PROBLEM FOR ME. No coughing, or gagging. I just started. This is why I tell you the string has no end. Either we the people eliminate it or decide to live with it with some sort of sanity to the rules. But we decide not the Government.

---

Im sure its already pretty obvious if their kids are locked up at home when theyre smoking thats pretty serious second hand smoke. Or maybe the parents will smoke in a certain room where the kids dont go. Both my parents smoked when I was young and I will never smoke (cigarettes, or become addicted to anything like that). I cant say if it effected me or not, but as far as I can tell it hasnt.

Its kind of like telling them how to raise their kids. But what makes that any different than having a dirty house thats not sanitary for your kids, or feeding them crap food. The government, OR the people (sort of the same thing in this situation) cant really do anything about it.

"The people" can only take action through the government. No one is going to listen to what you have to say, if they are set in their ways, unless its a law, and even then they still might not.

The government decides because the people decide.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

Then the same should apply to him.:D As long as it is not in an environment where you would normally expect to risk finding one next door.:D
After all what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.
A smoker moving into a previously smoke free environment and polluting it should be regulated by the apartment complex....not the government and the tenant inconvenienced should be well with-in their rights to request he relocate or the apartments accommodate the nonsmoker by moving them.

---

I agree, and maybe I should clarify about banning smoking in public.

Even then... you should be able to smoke outside on your property and if you OWN a house, you probably have neighbors that could smell the smoke if you live close enough.

But is it really that big of a deal? Thats like complaining about smelling someones car exhaust which is just as bad, and happens all the time. Or maybe a lawnmower running. What can you do? Your not going to ban cars.

Its probably worse than second hand smoke. I feel like people dont think about this stuff. :oops:

But smoking and apartments should be up to the occupants. But you cant really make a set of laws for home owners because they probably dont apply to everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

Im sure its already pretty obvious if their kids are locked up at home when theyre smoking thats pretty serious second hand smoke. Or maybe the parents will smoke in a certain room where the kids dont go. Both my parents smoked when I was young and I will never smoke (cigarettes, or become addicted to anything like that). I cant say if it effected me or not, but as far as I can tell it hasnt.

Its kind of like telling them how to raise their kids. But what makes that any different than having a dirty house thats not sanitary for your kids, or feeding them crap food. The government, OR the people (sort of the same thing in this situation) cant really do anything about it.

"The people" can only take action through the government. No one is going to listen to what you have to say, if they are set in their ways, unless its a law, and even then they still might not.

The government decides because the people decide.

---

This issue is never ending. However, When we decide the government is the answer to all our problems, then we begin to take a back seat. The people are the government. We choose who we put in power and we choose to eliminate them. Just look at the last two major elections. We have the right to legislate from the ballot box, so long as it is with-in the constitution. Lets look at your statement "It's kind of like telling them how to raise their kids. Let me give you some things the government has decided for you and therefor you no longer have the right to choose.
1. wearing a helmet while on a motorcycle...there is talk of making it mandatory for bike riders as well.
2. Putting children up to 4'-9 in child seats...I know 70 year old men who are currently in violation of the law because they are not 4'-9.
3. Wearing seat belts while riding in a car...is it smart sure but what right does the Gov have to dictate that...
4. Your children must attend school until the age of... again is it smart sure but is it their right to force it...
5. We must now all buy health insurance under Obama care...does this make you any healthier no but it forces you to do what is "Good for you"
6. In Ms. it is illegal to burn a 2x4 from a lumber yard but o.k. to burn a pine log. One is hazardous the other is not.
7. Incandescent light bulbs are being forced off the market by the Gov in favor of bulbs filled with mercury...all in the name of Global warming. If you drop one you have to call a hazmat team to clean it up.
8. The smoking issue is but a drop of water in the bucket of who is going to dictate how you live...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

This issue is never ending. However, When we decide the government is the answer to all our problems, then we begin to take a back seat. The people are the government. We choose who we put in power and we choose to eliminate them. Just look at the last two major elections. We have the right to legislate from the ballot box, so long as it is with-in the constitution. Lets look at your statement "It's kind of like telling them how to raise their kids. Let me give you some things the government has decided for you and therefor you no longer have the right to choose.
1. wearing a helmet while on a motorcycle...there is talk of making it mandatory for bike riders as well.
2. Putting children up to 4'-9 in child seats...I know 70 year old men who are currently in violation of the law because they are not 4'-9.
3. Wearing seat belts while riding in a car...is it smart sure but what right does the Gov have to dictate that...
4. Your children must attend school until the age of... again is it smart sure but is it their right to force it...
5. We must now all buy health insurance under Obama care...does this make you any healthier no but it forces you to do what is "Good for you"
6. In Ms. it is illegal to burn a 2x4 from a lumber yard but o.k. to burn a pine log. One is hazardous the other is not.
7. Incandescent light bulbs are being forced off the market by the Gov in favor of bulbs filled with mercury...all in the name of Global warming. If you drop one you have to call a hazmat team to clean it up.
8. The smoking issue is but a drop of water in the bucket of who is going to dictate how you live...

---

Those laws dont apply everywhere. Im sure theres different variations in different states, and some of them are supposed to be a good thing, such as the schooling one.

The government only decides this stuff because some people actually think thats a good idea.

If you and a bunch of other people decide that you dont want people smoking, the government is supposed to do something about it, because the government is supposed to represent the people. You could add that to the list of things the government has chosen for you. Its not like they just pulled the ideas out of their you know what.

I dont think this is going anywhere. So yeah. stuff doesnt work. government makes rules for you. people want to make rules for other people. no ones happy. the end.

This is my last comment on this subject. In America I see a free people who have forgotten how to be free. Freedom isn't easy. It requires personal responsibility to make good choices, and to live with the consequences of those choices. It requires that we recognize the rights of others to make choices. We must also be willing to expect them to live with the choices they made. It is much easier in the short run to let the government solve all the ills of the world. Then all I have to do is live with in the rules and follow the directions. Then I have no responsibility. I see an America who is fast looking to the government to take care of us. I see an America that too quickly and easily relies on Uncle Sam to fix things because after all what can I do. That saddens me because the independent "I can do it myself" attitude is what made this country what it is today. This smoking issue is just a minuscule part of what i have just said. I hope I have given all food for thought.
Thanks for listening...

So if you own a car you have the right to drive it where you like? On the sidewalk left or right side of the road? Regulating dangerous behaviour is part of the governments job. A pig farm isn't dangerous to your health, smoking is totally different. Can you open a pig farm in a city? Nope. There are regulations governing where you can do things a small quite neighbourhood could you build a huge big office tower? Not where I live, residential zoning means residential. 12 paced from a door or window seems quite reasonable banning smoking does not. That is against peoples rights.

I only see a regulation on some peoples activity just like your pig farm have regulations of where and how why not smoking? It is only 12 steps, the discussion takes more effort why are you opposed to smokers having to walk away from someones else's house?

I also grew up with smokers and am quite allergic. In the local school there is a no peanut rule one child is violently allergic to them. So you would argue that should not be regulated too?

What I am saying is social ques have failed, signs have failed, the landlords have no power as you can evict someone because they smoke. Being polite, gets smoke blown in your face. what is left? Law. Everything has already been tried and nothing works, what options are left, remove the right to smoke totally or try regulations to control how and where you can. Same as a car, you can't drive your car as fast as you want or where you might want like on the side walk. What is so wrong with saying you can smoke here, you can smoke over there. To my mind if that fails then you speak about a total ban. Where I am 20 feet from all windows and doors, the fine is 1000$. Not just at a housing complex.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

This is my last comment on this subject. In America I see a free people who have forgotten how to be free. Freedom isn't easy. It requires personal responsibility to make good choices, and to live with the consequences of those choices. It requires that we recognize the rights of others to make choices. We must also be willing to expect them to live with the choices they made. It is much easier in the short run to let the government solve all the ills of the world. Then all I have to do is live with in the rules and follow the directions. Then I have no responsibility. I see an America who is fast looking to the government to take care of us. I see an America that too quickly and easily relies on Uncle Sam to fix things because after all what can I do. That saddens me because the independent "I can do it myself" attitude is what made this country what it is today. This smoking issue is just a minuscule part of what i have just said. I hope I have given all food for thought.
Thanks for listening...

---

That actually makes a lot of sense. If you want no responsibility you dont want freedom, because its a lot of work just to voice your own opinion let alone fight other peoples opinions if your voting, and spreading the word.

The government taking care of you and making RULES isnt being free. But at the same time if the government doesnt make rules, everyone is free but then you have the conflicts of everyones freedoms such as the smoking one.

But I think the conflicts that could potentially harm others are worth looking at, but wearing a seat belt and a helmet doesnt have any effect on other people, those laws are ridiculous. Its like having caution this coffee is hot labels. Theyre for the people who are to dumb to know that every action has a reaction.

Do you really need someone to tell you that your coffee is hot and can burn you? Same thing for do you really need someone to say that if you dont wear a helmet you could get hurt?

What ever happened to common sense.
wake up, wake up, wake up! :salute: